Wikipedia talk:Overcategorization

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Categories per secondary school

IMO the categorization of bios by secondary school is WP:NONDEFINING. I brought this up in Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2025_October_6#Category:Tichon Hadash high school alumni discussion and user:Marcocapelle suggested to get some extra input. --Altenmann >talk 10:46, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. High school attendance is very often defining. If it is non-defining for particular individuals, then it should be removed from those particular articles.--User:Namiba 15:09, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It probably depends on the secondary school and the part an alum's education there played in their rise to notability. And, as well, the extent to which reliable sources have remarked on their attendance at the school. I'd think that for many of their alumni, graduation from high-profile schools, especially with numerous notable alumni, like the Bronx High School of Science or Phillips Exeter Academy or Fiorello H. LaGuardia High School or perhaps Beverly Hills High School, could be considered defining in that sense, just as much as the university the person attended. In contrast, attendance at Chisholm High School in Enid, Oklahoma, might not be defining for anybody. Largoplazo (talk) 16:47, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• • WP:CATDEF says Categories should not group subjects by trivial characteristics that have little relevance to the topics, unless it can be shown that such a characteristic or grouping is notable - I do not see how grouping by a secondary scool is notable in general. A college or university - yes : they usually define the occupation or skills of a person. Secondary school ? I highly doubt most of them have any impact on person's future career. There are wxceptional cases, ;like listed above, but this must be proven by reliable sourcces that this particular school has considerable impact --Altenmann >talk 23:11, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Funny, that sentence from WP:CATDEF is a logical nightmare. Paraphrased: "Categories should not group subjects by trivial characteristics unless they aren't trivial characteristics." Like, "I distrust people with blue eyes unless they have brown eyes."

    Anyway, what I wrote is precisely that, to be acceptable, the affiliation would have to be nontrivial and of relevance to the person's notability. Largoplazo (talk) 23:44, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• I think it depends on where you’re from. In the US I can tell you high school (secondary school) attended is often defining. I certainly wouldn’t make any blanket statements about it. To me it comes down to the high school. The one linked at CfD doesn’t even seem to have an article Rikster2 (talk) 00:14, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  If someone peaked in high school they are unlikely to have a WP article. More seriously, I can not think of anyone off hand who was defined by the high school they attended. I suspect any such cases would be rare. Donald Albury 14:37, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  Ah, but guidance as to what's appropriate if and when someone identifies such a case isn't dependent on whether someone in this discussion anticipates that any such cases exist. These should be discussed on a case by case basis as cases arise. Also, what does when someone peaked have to do with it? Inclusion in any of the university categories never implies that the subject peaked in university either. Largoplazo (talk) 15:18, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  I would be interested in seeing who you think has been defined by what high school they attended. I am not denying that such can happen, I am just skeptical there are many cases of it happening. I think that what high school a person attended should not be categorized without evidence of its significance in reliable sources. Note that this is not about listing the high school in the inforbox, or including the person in the list of alumni for the school, which I think are sufficient for the overwhelming majority of people with articles. Donald Albury 16:54, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  There are many schools that produce (for example) a lot of athletes or artists or military leaders for which these categories are notable. An example of a person for whom a secondary school category would be WP:DEFINING (though not the only category that would define him) would be someone like Danny Ferry, who would have been notable prior to his college basketball career as a top recruit out of DeMatha Catholic High School (though Wikipedia did not exist then). You also have prestigious schools like Phillips Academy in the US and Eton College in the UK which churn out hundreds of notable folks in all walks of life. I think WP may have gone too far with categories of every high school, but that doesn't mean a blanket ban on secondary school categories from the center of the project is the right move. Rikster2 (talk) 13:31, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  I would be interested in seeing who you think has been defined ... is a curious response to my observation that whether I or anyone in this discussion has any specific subjects in mind now is irrelevant to the question at hand. Largoplazo (talk) 17:41, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  Who said anyone peaked in high school? It’s not like high school would necessarily be the ONLY defining characteristic. Rikster2 (talk) 15:22, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Tagging @Alansohn: due to his extensive work on New Jersey high school alumni categories. SportsGuy789 (talk) 15:55, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• It depends… For most people, their secondary school is non-defining, but there will be exceptions. This is especially true for historical persons, from an age when it was rare to attend university. It also depends on which school we are talking about. As a non-US example… attending a prestigious school like Eaton or Harrow is likely quite defining in the context of a British diplomat from the 19th century. For a modern UK diplomat, less so. Blueboar (talk) 12:52, 10 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  Did you mean to disambiguate those two links? Also, by the way, the school is Eton, not Eaton. Largoplazo (talk) 13:36, 10 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Categorization by former subdivisions

See Wikipedia_talk:Categorization#Categorization_by_former_subdivisions_of_former_countries. --Altenmann >talk 17:08, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Request for assistance

Do any of the watchers of this talk page want to help us understand the meaning of 'defining' and 'non-defining' with respect to applying categories to an article describing a collection of multiple different events? If you do, please join the discussion at Talk:2025 British anti-immigration protests#Bad categories?. -- DeFacto (talk). 13:19, 16 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]