User talk:Surtsicna

Hello, Surtsicna, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages you might find helpful:

Introduction
The five pillars of Wikipedia
How to edit a page
How to write a great article
Manual of Style
Also feel free to make test edits in the sandbox.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, please see our help pages, and if you can't find what you are looking for there, please feel free to leave me a message or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will drop by to help. SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 17:03, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination for merging of Template:Infobox peerage title

Template:Infobox peerage title has been nominated for merging with Template:Infobox family. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you.

Tree chart

I've noticed you're adept at creating attractive and clear family trees such as in the above Isabella II of Jerusalem and Isabella I of Jerusalem (nice articles by the way - well done). I've been working on English claims to the French throne and have added here a horrible-looking tree. I've been trying to make it look more like one of yours in my sandbox but as you can see after hours of fiddling, have failed miserably. I can't get the lines/names to line up properly. The template instructions says hardly anything. How did you work it out? Is there a more detailed help guide somewhere? Thanks DeCausa (talk) 06:39, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There is no guide as far as I know. What worked for me was trial and error and persistence. In your example, one way to do it would be to add more distance between Philip IV's children so that the names of their children can line up. Sibling names can rarely be all equally distant from one another. Surtsicna (talk) 06:49, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I'll try that. DeCausa (talk) 06:55, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Let me know if you tire of the attempts :D Surtsicna (talk) 07:07, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Re this (or the previous edit): one of the reasons I stopped fiddling with it is that it became apparent to me that the appearance seems to vary widely depending on browser, device and individual settings. What one sees isn't what everyone sees. Your edit, when I look at it now on my iPad, has Philip V's daughters not aligned with their father and Isabella and Edward II at the wrong level. When I look at it on my desktop those problems aren't there but Charles IV's daughters aren't aligned with their father and Philip VI isn't aligned with his! I'm resigned to that template being irredeemably byzantine! DeCausa (talk) 10:20, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I am on it at my genealogy fiddling subpage. Stay tuned! Surtsicna (talk) 10:23, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

But is it an impossible objective? Won't it always look different on different devices etc? DeCausa (talk) 10:25, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No. I was not actually done at the article. They are not aligned there for me either. Surtsicna (talk) 10:26, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Eschiva of Ibelin (wife of Aimery)

On 7 October 2025, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Eschiva of Ibelin (wife of Aimery), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Queen Eschiva and her children were kidnapped by the pirate Kanakes after her husband put a bounty on him? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Kanakes. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Eschiva of Ibelin (wife of Aimery)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to nominate it.

Laun chba ller 00:03, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

		Hook update
		Your hook reached 17,488 views (728.7 per hour), making it one of the most viewed hooks of October 2025 – nice work!

GalliumBot (talk • contribs) (he/it) 03:31, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Baldwin III of Jerusalem

On 9 October 2025, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Baldwin III of Jerusalem, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that King Baldwin III was 13 or 14 when he won his first military success—after which his mother took steps to prevent a second? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Baldwin III of Jerusalem. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Baldwin III of Jerusalem), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to nominate it.

♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:03, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

		Hook update
		Your hook reached 15,270 views (636.2 per hour), making it one of the most viewed hooks of October 2025 – nice work!

GalliumBot (talk • contribs) (he/it) 03:27, 10 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Your nomination of Hugh I of Cyprus has passed

Your good article nomination of the article Hugh I of Cyprus has passed; congratulations! See the review page for more information. If the article is eligible to appear in the "Did you know" section of the Main Page, you can nominate it within the next seven days. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Reverosie -- Reverosie (talk) 21:08, 11 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Presidential order

Please do not make sweeping changes to multiple articles without discussing it first with the community—especially if said changes are based on your personal opinion, as you made clear in the edit notes. Zelani (talk) 23:32, 12 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

But the use of the order parameter has been discussed with the community, Zelani, hence Template:Infobox officeholder#Usage states:

This should only be used when there is a well-established use of such numbering in reliable sources. Do not add numbers simply based on a Wikipedia list of holders of the office, because (1) the list may not be accurate and (2) even with a definite list, different numbering systems could be applied (as to how various categories of "irregular" officeholders should be counted, and as to the counting of those serving for multiple non-consecutive periods) making the numbers arbitrary; and even where such issues are not yet present, they are bound to be in the future, making this unsustainable.

Do we have evidence that the numbering is commonly employed in Brazil? Who exactly calls Pascoal Ranieri Mazzilli "23rd & 25th President of Brazil"? The Presidential Library does not. The term "25.º Presidente do Brasil" does not appear even once in Google Books. The numbering should be pervasive and commonly used to describe the president. Surtsicna (talk) 07:06, 13 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I also have a problem with these changes. For instance, Ólafur Ragnar Grímsson is widely known as the fifth president of Iceland as can be seen in the following sources from all major medias in Iceland.

Fimmti forseti lýðveldisins, Ólafur Ragnar Grímsson (Official presidential site)
Ólafur Ragnar er fimmti forseti lýðveldisins (Heimildin, 2016)
Ólafur Ragnar Grímsson var kjörinn fimmti forseti Íslands. (University of Iceland, 2000)
Hann er fimmti forseti lýðveldisins (Vísir.is, 2016)
Ólafur Ragnar Grímsson, fimmti forseti lýðveldisins (Helgarpósturinn, 1996)
Ólafur Ragnar Grímsson er fimmti forseti lýðveldisins (Morgunblaðið, 2015)
Ólafur Ragnar Grímsson var kjörinn fimmti forseti Íslands árið 1996 (RÚV, 2020)
Ólafur Ragnar Grímsson er fimmti forseti lýðveldisins (Dagblaðið Vísir, 1996)

Furthermore, his article on the Icelandic Wikipedia describes him as the fifth president of Iceland in the first paragraph so it is hardly a US-thing. The same goes for other presidents of Iceland. Halla Tómasdóttir is referred to as the seventh president of Iceland.

Alvaldi (talk) 10:26, 14 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for bringing this up and finding the sources, @Alvaldi. Of course, I am not disputing the count itself. We have it at President_of_Iceland#List. Do you think that this numbering is important enough to be so prominently noted in the infoboxes of individual articles? Surtsicna (talk) 11:15, 14 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, when discussing Icelandic president's career in Iceland, the numbering is almost always mentioned. It has nothing to do with the United States, this is an Icelandic cultural thing. Further samples are that 35 years after his death, Kristján Eldjárn is still called the third president of Iceland in the first paragraph[1] and Guðni Th. Jóhannesson was described as the sixth president, both when he took office[2] and when he announced that he was stepping down.[3] Alvaldi (talk) 11:28, 14 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I expected that it would be more like in France and Germany, where the numbers are not really a thing. Thanks for taking the time to explain this. Surtsicna (talk) 14:53, 14 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The numbering of Brazilian presidents is used by the media and official sources. Examples:

CNN Brasil, Câmara dos Deputados Zelani (talk) 01:04, 16 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Erika Kirk

On 16 October 2025, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Erika Kirk, which you recently nominated. The fact was ... that Erika Kirk forgave her husband's killer at his memorial service? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Erika Kirk. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Erika Kirk), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to nominate it.

~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 00:02, 16 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

King John

You reverted my edit in King John of England. But then he was Lord of Ireland from 1177, what do you mean he didn't officially get the position until 1216, the year he died? It's probably John's son, Henry III, that you're probably referring to, not John himself. Richie1509 (talk) 21:35, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No, check the year again, please 😃 Surtsicna (talk) 05:41, 18 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Your page moves

Good evening

As per agreed and accepted convention (see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (UK Parliament constituencies)], the suffix (UK Parliament constituency) must be included in every article name.

Please acknowledge this policy decision and reverse your changes.

Thanks

doktorb _words^deeds 23:16, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. I am afraid that you are not up to date. Please revisit the convention page and follow the link I have included in my edit summaries. Surtsicna (talk) 23:25, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have and posted that agreed, long standing convention beneath the RFC. There is no debate. I'll have my way on this, it is an official convention and has not been overturned. I'll revert your changes if I can.

doktorb _words^deeds 23:29, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That is a very audacious attitude that is more likely to end up in disciplinary action against you than in undermining the community consensus. Surtsicna (talk) 23:37, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a long standing member of the UK politics project community. I remember the long debates we had to agree the article naming policy. I don't believe that the RFC was widely enough contributed to. doktorb _words^deeds 23:39, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and I see in those long debates that there was never a strong consensus for it. It was always challenged, and it stood against policy. A guideline may never contradict policy. If you do not believe that the RfC was properly closed, you are free to challenge the closure. You are not free to reverse its outcome yourself. Surtsicna (talk) 23:43, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's just so deflating. We worked together to ensure standardisation across constituency articles across the project. Just feels like I wasted so much effort in trying to encourage standardisation rather than a hodge-podge. Why do future editors want to rip up what we agreed? Why did I bother. doktorb _words^deeds 23:50, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That consistency was inconsistent with the rest of Wikipedia. We do not add unnecessary disambiguation for standardisation. This is explicitly against policy, namely WP:CONSISTENCY. Otherwise we would have Keir Starmer (UK politician, born 1962) just because we need to have John Smith (New South Wales politician, born 1811). Surtsicna (talk) 23:57, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry for snapping. Just feel beaten. Used to put in so much effort and it all gets undone. Don't feel like I can contribute without being beaten down and always defeated. Go ahead with the changes, feels like I'm always defeated. Sorry again for my initial reaction. doktorb _words^deeds 00:01, 24 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your apology and I want you to know that I understand how you feel. I have been "defeated" countless times on such small issues. This is a small issue. We contribute to this project by creating content. The title under which that content appears does not matter much to our readers. It only matters to us and our egos. Let this sit for a while and if you still feel that it is wrong after some time has passed, start a new RfC. Surtsicna (talk) 00:25, 24 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Hugh I of Cyprus

On 24 October 2025, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Hugh I of Cyprus, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that King Hugh I of Cyprus married his stepsister with a special permission from the pope? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Hugh I of Cyprus. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Hugh I of Cyprus), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to nominate it.

Gatoclass (talk) 00:02, 24 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Isabella I of Jerusalem

On 26 October 2025, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Isabella I of Jerusalem, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Queen Isabella I lost her first husband to politics, her second to assassins, her third to a window, and her fourth to fish? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Isabella I of Jerusalem. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Isabella I of Jerusalem), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to nominate it.

♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:02, 26 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

		Hook update
		Your hook reached 18,692 views (778.8 per hour), making it one of the most viewed hooks of October 2025 – nice work!

GalliumBot (talk • contribs) (he/it) 03:28, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

What a life! I've really enjoyed your ongoing series on the royal soap opera of medieval Jerusalem, so illuminating. No Swan So Fine (talk) 22:49, 26 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

♥︎ Stay tuned! In the next installment: a queen gets a holy talking-to for carrying on with someone else's husband! Surtsicna (talk) 23:56, 26 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Coronation in Bethlehem Street is my new favourite soap. No Swan So Fine (talk) 22:12, 30 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

DYK nomination of Maria of Montferrat

Hello! Your submission of Maria of Montferrat at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there at your earliest convenience. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Kingsif (talk) 01:04, 26 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Your nomination of Plaisance of Antioch is under review

Your good article nomination of the article Plaisance of Antioch is under review. See the review page for more information. This may take up to 7 days; feel free to contact the reviewer with any questions you might have. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Reverosie -- Reverosie (talk) 20:22, 28 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Your edits of links at Catherine Connelly

Hey, I would like to ask you if you would be willing to self-revert some of the parts of your edit at Catherine Connelly. Many of those removed invisible comments that were intended as replacement text for after her inauguration. Another was grammatically necessary. ("president". without that, "to that office" makes no sense, or would appear to refer to the president-elect position, and not the president position)

Sorry if this is rude, thanks for your time and happy editing,

Slomo666 (talk) 20:45, 28 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. It is not at all rude. I do not see who benefits from invisible comments/replacement text. Surely we can just write that visibly once it is supposed to be there. I have restored "as president". Surtsicna (talk) 20:50, 28 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Maria of Montferrat

On 11 November 2025, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Maria of Montferrat, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that two queens of Jerusalem—Maria and her daughter, Isabella II—died in childbirth (pictured), one after delivering the other? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Maria of Montferrat. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Maria of Montferrat), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to nominate it.

Sennecaster (Chat) 00:02, 11 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Isabella II of Jerusalem

On 11 November 2025, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Isabella II of Jerusalem, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that two queens of Jerusalem—Maria and her daughter, Isabella II—died in childbirth (pictured), one after delivering the other? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Maria of Montferrat. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Isabella II of Jerusalem), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to nominate it.

Sennecaster (Chat) 00:02, 11 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Glory Hole Park

On 12 November 2025, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Glory Hole Park, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that two full freight cars were swallowed in 1918 at what is now Glory Hole Park? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Glory Hole Park. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Glory Hole Park), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to nominate it.

Laun chba ller 00:03, 12 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

		Hook update
		Your hook reached 18,882 views (786.8 per hour), making it one of the most viewed hooks of November 2025 – nice work!

GalliumBot (talk • contribs) (he/it) 03:27, 13 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Eschiva of Montbéliard

On 16 November 2025, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Eschiva of Montbéliard, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Eschiva of Montbéliard left her children, fled to Buffavento Castle disguised as a monk, brought ample provisions, and joined an old knight in defending it? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Eschiva of Montbéliard. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Eschiva of Montbéliard), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to nominate it.

Dclemens1971 (talk) 00:03, 16 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]