User talk:Leptitgay

Speedy deletion nomination of Tales of Breaker

Hello Leptitgay,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Tales of Breaker for deletion, because the article doesn't clearly indicate why the subject is important enough to be included in an encyclopedia.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks!

Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

Mekomo (talk) 08:31, 19 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Tales of Commons for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Tales of Commons is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tales of Commons until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

Drmies (talk) 19:28, 19 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned non-free image File:Tales of Breaker logo.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:Tales of Breaker logo.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of non-free use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 18:01, 22 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ways to improve Tales of Breaker

Hello, Leptitgay,

Thank you for creating Tales of Breaker.

I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:

Good start - unfortunately there's a few areas for improvement. The article is missing a Reception section, usually an important element for establishing notability of a game. Beyond the IT Media article, it looks like neither this or the broader series article has particularly great reception - but understand that's likely a WP:NONENG issue and hopefully there is more out there. A substantial amount of the article is only using one citation.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Vrxces}}. Remember to sign your reply with ~~~~. For broader editing help, please visit the Teahouse.

Delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 11:41, 24 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned non-free image File:Tales of the World Material Dungeon.png

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Thanks for uploading File:Tales of the World Material Dungeon.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of non-free use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --Min☠︎rax^«¦talk¦» 07:54, 5 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned non-free image File:TOW MD.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:TOW MD.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of non-free use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --Min☠︎rax^«¦talk¦» 07:54, 5 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Freya

The big issue is that we can't cite a summary of the Famitsu text for this, we need either a reliable source summarizing it or to be able to review the info. Do you know if the magazine is scanned? Cukie Gherkin (talk) 15:24, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No scans online. But the interview in the thread was scanned from a weekly Famitsu (the most popular video game magazine in Japan. There's not any sources more reliable than them. This is not any different than the dozen of articles using sources from IGN or even some questionable sites) the info is official and can be verified.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B01LLCVUZO/?tag=famitsu-5-22

https://www.famitsu.com/news/202007/14202111.html Leptitgay (talk) 15:36, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I believe it's likely all true, I just need to find the magazine first is the issue, as we can't cite that social media user, even though he has published works that are reliable. It's not the worst due to his credentials, but we should try to find the info to cite it directly. Cukie Gherkin (talk) 16:07, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've been searching the magazine itself for the past 2-3 hours and could not find it either. There's no scans of it online. I will try searching some more but I can't promise I'll find better. Leptitgay (talk) 16:13, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You might benefit from asking on WP:SE or WP:VG Cukie Gherkin (talk) 16:53, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

While I appreciate you bringing to attention some issues with articles, you went a bit full Bull in a China shop there, particularly with Faris Scherwiz. A resetera link is not a good source. You also left out Koichi Ishii from the credits. The 4Gamer ref at least sufficed there to fix that.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 17:20, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My bad, I had two links ready, the resetera post which links to the interview and the actual interview and chose the wrong one by mistake. Let me rectify it. Leptitgay (talk) 17:22, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Just finished reading the 4Gamer, Kung Fu Man. The article also states that Ishii only worked on the main series from I-III (he may have done some spinoffs but I'm not sure). Which further reinforces my belief that Shibuya did the character designs for IV, V and a majority of VI. Leptitgay (talk) 17:32, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

For FFV, Koichi Ishii had nothing to do with the character designs. He only did I-III. You can see it in galleries about the game. Once we reach IV, there's no concept arts attribuated to his name and instead to Shibuya which means she did both the initial designs and the pixel arts.

Here's Faris' gallery from the FF fandom as a proof: https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Faris_Scherwiz/Gallery Leptitgay (talk) 17:23, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah we shouldn't use a wikia as proof...here's the quote from the 4Gamer article:

4Gamer：順序としては，まず最初に天野喜孝さんのイメージイラストがあって，それを元に石井さんがゲームに近いデザイン画を描き，そして渋谷さんがゲーム内のドット絵を打つ……といった流れだったんでしょうか。
渋谷氏：いや，天野さんの絵はあくまでイメージイラストなんです。なのでゲーム内で使用するキャラクターは，こちら側で先行して進めていました。ただ，モンスターのデザインは天野さんに描いてもらっています。白黒でしたけど（笑）。

Which when translated states:

4Gamer：In terms of the order, first Amano Yoshitaka came up with an image illustration, then Ishii drew a design that was closer to the game based on that, and then Shibuya added the in-game pixel art...that was the process.
Shibuya: No, Amano's drawings are merely conceptual illustrations. So we were the ones working on the characters used in the game first. However, Amano did draw the monster designs. They were black and white though (laughs).

As you can see, she says "we were the ones working on the characters" and doesn't correct 4Gamer on Ishii's involvement. He's also credited as a character designer for the game..--Kung Fu Man (talk) 17:37, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Fandom wiki wasn't meant to be used as a source. Just to show you that none of the artworks were done by Ishii himself.

The same interview also says this:

石井浩一氏：グレッゾ代表。スクウェア在籍中に，FFI～IIIや，聖剣伝説シリーズを手がける。チョコボの生みの親としても有名。

Ishii Koichi: CEO of Grezzo. While at Square, he worked on FFI-III and the Secret of Mana series. He's also famous for creating Chocobo.

The reason Shibuya said she adapted Ishii's designs is because they were specifically talking about FF1. The interviewer starts by saying "In FFI" which is correct, she has no reasons to correct a true statement. Leptitgay (talk) 17:40, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Possible, but he's credited on several reputable sites as a character designer for IV and V. It's definitely a confusing mess. I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just a weird state.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 17:52, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have never seen him being credited anywhere as a character designer on IV or V. The only place that does it is the FF Fandom and like you said, not really a credible source. Do you have any links ? I agree that FF's character designs credits is a huge mess. Leptitgay (talk) 18:00, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Just checked and I couldn't find anything of note citing Ishii as having worked on FFIV, V, and VI. He's not credited anywhere. On the other hand, I found this by Noisy Pixel: https://noisypixel.net/interview-mana-creator-koichi-ishii-game-design-passions-beloved-franchise/

The article states that he was offered to work on FFIV but declined due to his work on his own series (Mana/Seiken Densetsu).

An article from the official Square Enix website states the same thing: https://www.square-enix-games.com/en_EU/news/30-years-mana-koichi-ishii

How did the original FINAL FANTASY ADVENTURE get started?

I was involved in the development of FINAL FANTASY I through to FINAL FANTASY III and felt like it was time to move on and create a new experience… so I turned down the opportunity to work on FINAL FANTASY IV. Leptitgay (talk) 18:26, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I went ahead and removed it, it feels like it became misinfo that got spread around.

Regarding FFIV, the OMP bit seems to conflict a bit with what was said in this source, especially at 8:27 where she states she changed Terra's hair color because blonde wouldn't show up well on the screen. Also in OMP's translation she's stating they were working on the sprites at the same time, but Amano states he was given brief outlines and designed the characters off that. So there's a bit of a chicken or the egg situation in FF6. At the very least there we know most of the cast was designed by Nomura first in preliminary concepts.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:39, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

From what I've seen, Shibuya designed all the cast except for Sabin and Edgar who were done by Soraya Saga and Shadow and Setzer who were done by Nomura (This is partly why Setzer is in KH and none of the other members of the cast are). The one I'm most lost on is Kefka, some sources say Amano designed him (and while we already know he didn't design any characters, depending on if Kefka is treated as a "Monster Design" this may very well be true) others says that Nomura did both designs (He did the design for God Kefka 100%) Leptitgay (talk) 18:44, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think with the FF6 cast, since there is a conflicting statement on who designed who there, it'd be better to include a mention that there is a conflicting statement once we figure out which article the OMP source is translating. This way we can ensure neither statements are discounted, as realistically sometimes recollections change over time.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 19:09, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not really: https://shmuplations.com/ff6/ This interview basically confirms that Soraya Saga/Kaori Tanaka created and designed the Figaro brothers (Wikipedia already correctly identified her as their creators). We also know that Nomura only created and designed Shadow and Setzer. Since Amano only does his own illustrations based on the sprites while adding touches of his own style, we can safely say that Shibuya designed everyone else. There is also sprites of a blonde and short haired Terra from the early development (shared by Shibuya herself: https://x.com/Skazuko/status/1377868800578576393). Shibuya then decided to opt for longer, green hair while Amano kept the initial idea for his work. Leptitgay (talk) 19:30, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Some of what you're encouraging though is original research, we can't just assume such. We also have Nomura's original preliminary designs of the cast, which means we can't simply say Shibuya made those from scratch, even if the designs changed significantly. Amano's own statements of the event run contrary to hers in the book Japan: Final Fantasy, which means we should include both.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 19:39, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This goes deeper into who made who. This is the same situation as with Amano. He made sketches but did not design. Nomura only contribuated to two characters in the main cast:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130808145228/http://www.edge-online.com/features/the-making-of-final-fantasy-vi#null

Also here: https://www.onemillionpower.com/25-years-since-the-release-of-final-fantasy-vi-looking-back-at-the-passion/

Shibuya directly says that she designed Terra. Leptitgay (talk) 19:43, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We have preliminary design sketches by Nomura of the cast, including at least one cut character. While it was leaked art by accident, it still counts as part of the creation process. The famitsu article that OMP translated is here, which states that Strago and Shadow were based off Amano's designs. However this conflicts with what Amano has said. So we include the discrepancy in the article and credit both as designing the finalized work. Amano's artwork has also been used to represent the characters in-game or later games in some cases too (Celes and Faris are big examples of this), so removing him entirely from the design process would also make no sense.

The short version of this, with the information we have we're not going to say Shibuya designed all these characters by herself.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 20:17, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"We have preliminary design sketches by Nomura of the cast, including at least one cut character. While it was leaked art by accident, it still counts as part of the creation process. The famitsu article that OMP translated is here, which states that Strago and Shadow were based off Amano's designs."

That cannot be possibly true because about every interviews states that Amano's work came later and is based on both the sprites and his own artistic vision so we know for a fact that he didn't design anyone.

As for Faris and Celes, the only games using Amano's designs as a base are the Dissidia games (and even those have Shibuya's art as a secondary costume). Every other appearance of those characters (spinoffs or official artworks) uses the Shibuya design. And even then, you correctly stated in Faris's page that Amano's designs was used for some spinoffs so this is not even an issue.

As for Nomura's art, it makes no sense to include him as a character designer for the rest when we have word from the team themselves that he did not. Shibuya herself said that she designed Terra, there's no point in giving unnecessary credits to him. Leptitgay (talk) 20:23, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Preliminary character design work is still part of the development process, even if another artist takes over later it still counts and is noted as such (thus the preliminary in the infobox). As for Amano, even for Terra, she talks about how Amano influenced the design in the youtube video linked above. Additionally Amano's designs have been used in other instances, such as in the FF6 3D opening cinematic that was added later, card representations of the characters and similar, so arguing it only affected Dissidia is also incorrect.

Why are you so deadset that Shibuya should be the only person credited here?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 20:38, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I never said that only Shibuya should be credited. I just said that Shibuya herself said that Amano's art came later, he was doing his own thing so it's not possible that she (or anyone else for that matters) took inspirations from his works. FF6 3D cinematics are such a minor thing that they don't matter enough to say he designed the character (they still fall under promotional artworks. His art is also used in FF5 GBA and I also wouldn't say it's enough to say that he designed for those games especially since those are re-releases and even then, the most recent ones, the Pixel Remasters, omits those cinematics which removes any designs made by him). For his design only being truly relevant in Dissida, it's literally the truth. Every other spinoffs mainly uses Shibuya/Nomura's designs. Pictlogica, WoFF, FFD2, Airbone Brigade, Artniks, Record Keeper, Brave Exvius (Wotv uses Amano's designs while Brave Exvius mainly uses sprites designs), Portal App and most of the ones using Amano's designs (sans Wotv) features the originals just as much if not more depending on the game. The only games were we could accept Amano as designers would be FF2 and FF4 since modern re-releases often depicts the characters with Amano's hairstyle and clothing (not sure if I mentioned that on their pages) Even the recent SQKawaii, used the Shibuya arts as basis for Lenna and Terra's appearances.

As for Nomura designing, I only found that he did the illustrations based on the already existing sprites as well as the chibi artworks seen in the manual. I would only call him illustrators (except for Setzer and Shadow whom we know for sure that he came up with them) Leptitgay (talk) 21:21, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We actually have leaked concept sketches by Nomura which show early designs of the characters, including Strago's wife: [1][2]. So he was involved in the earliest part of the design process.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 21:39, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This could very well be his own takes on designs made by Kazuko Shibuya/Soraya Saga.

And while the game is over 30 years old which certainly means that the team does not remember the exact situation in which they were making the game, There's more valid sources/interviews in favor of Nomura only having really created and designed Setzer and Shadow then the other way around. I'd sooner say taking Terra as an example, that Shibuya did the pixel art/character design, Amano did the promotional artworks and Nomura was the illustrator as well as the character designer for her Dissidia version based on the arts by Amano. Nomura himself, in the only interview where he talks about this, says that he did the illustrations based on the character's sprites.

https://na.finalfantasy.com/topics/528 Leptitgay (talk) 21:49, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That's talking about the chibi art, Leptitgay. It's mentioned in the ultimanias too. I keep feeling you're trying to take two and two and get five somehow...--Kung Fu Man (talk) 22:37, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No, he talks about both separately. He says this:

Yes, I was responsible for making the illustrations of the party-character sprites. I also drew rough storyboards for the cutscenes and did the original drawings of the chibi characters in the instruction manual. He never once says or implies that he helped in designing any characters other than Setzer and Shadow (whose final designs were made by Amano, you were right on that) Leptitgay (talk) 22:48, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Again too you have to consider that a lot of this is being said decades later and based off people's recollections of events. So while we can piece some bits together, we are going to have conflicting statements (Street Fighter and Pokemon both have this same issue).--Kung Fu Man (talk) 21:39, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Leptitgay, please stop doing sloppy edits on GA-class articles. While I understand you're wanting to correct info, you're leaving a lot of work for other editors and going haphazard about it.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 23:20, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you keep calling this: https://www.onemillionpower.com/25-years-since-the-release-of-final-fantasy-vi-looking-back-at-the-passion/ A ResetEra link ? This is a totally different one which links to the exact same interview you use, the exact same interview where they themselves corroborates what I've been saying. I don't see the problem in putting Kazuko Shibuya as sprites + original character designs and Amano as promotional artworks when that's literally what their roles were.

This same interview also says this:

坂口ほとんどが、渋谷が先に描いてますね。

"For the most part, Shibuya drew them first." while also saying how Shadow and Setzer were an exception due to obvious reasons we've cited before.

Leptitgay (talk) 23:32, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ignoring that you're, well, ignoring all the above discussion, this is the url you keep putting in those refs you've been spamming: [3]. Additionally, we have the famitsu article OMP translated, so it's better to cite that directly in this case.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 23:42, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

i'll note that, while this discussion is ongoing, i've procedurally undone most of those edits, under the rationale that this is effectively a brd process that happens to span a little more than one article. i'll note, though, that some weren't just procedural, as i do actually think you can do better than using a primary source in a ga consarn _{(grave) (obituary)} 22:37, 10 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see why the edits had to be undone when the source is literally from the developers themselves via interviews and for some edits, I even provided 2 different interviews in case someone asked for a secondary source.

It is well known that Yoshitaka Amano never designed any characters from FF9 and Shūkō Murase himself confirmed in the 20th Anniversary Feature from Famitsu which I've correctly sourced, that he designed the main cast. Why revert to false informations ? Same thing for FFI-VI. Why revert to false informations when the credible sources says the opposite ? Isn't Wikipedia supposed to be as credible as possible and not running on fan theories ? Leptitgay (talk) 22:48, 10 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

as i mentioned, i'm effectively treating it as a brd process spanning multiple articles. in those, articles tend to be reverted to the diff from before the discussion started. yoshitaka's credit is part of the debate, so i made the reversions based on that. if you want to say my attention is a little divided, that's fine, but even from an admittedly cursory look, it's pretty clear that you've been brute-forcing your additions by adding them to entirely too many articles at once, so it's best to have them discussed before they stick in mainspace. thus, unless specifcally stated otherwise in my summaries, those are just standard procedure, and don't necessarily reflect my opinion of what i think is correct (which totally isn't because ff9 sticks to my head like water to an oily surface)

as an aside, appealing to wikipedia's credibility generally doesn't work, assuming it's not outright treated as a red flag of bad-faith editing (like righting great wrongs or promotion). i'm not accusing you of engaging in that, mind you, but it's definitely not in the top 10 arguments you should use... ever, really, even on the side of "wikipedia is credible, so it can't lie" consarn _{(grave) (obituary)} 23:16, 10 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

These good, experienced editors are telling you all the same things I have in the past. This is simply how the website works. When you focus on obscure articles like Tales of Mobile, there's no one there to object to your edits and lack of understanding of policy. But whenever you branch out into more popular articles with experienced editors monitoring it, you're going to keep getting pushback like this. Sergecross73 msg me 02:37, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Pushbacks/Disagreements have to make sense. Reverting a correct edit (FFIX's character designer) to an obviously wrong one makes none. That's like if you changed Mario's page to say he was created by Beethoven and then a newbie came and edited saying he was created by Shigeru Miyamoto, provided valid sourcing (correct) but his edits were reverted for no valid reasons. It shouldn't matter if you're experienced or not since there's interviews that literally debunks all of this. You yourself told me you can't change wikipedia articles without at least two (sometimes three) sources saying corroborating my argument so why is it that this is even a debate ?

This site's rules makes no sense and need a massive rework if they just allow to let false informations to still exists with no backing behind them. Leptitgay (talk) 10:55, 12 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

not the same case. what was done here was restoring the status quo amid discussions of the content added in your edits being potentially unreliable or incorrect, and of said additions being brute-forced, not restoring recently-made edits over info we know is wrong for funsies

as two asides...

• "rules bad" is an argument we're all used to, but they're in place for a reason, so even if they have weaknesses, there's often a reason said weaknesses are in place. in this case, however, there's no real weakness against editing that is disruptive in nature (which is what this has devolved into, unfortunately). same for appealing to truth, that pretty much always goes nowhere
• watch the formatting in your replies. not indenting additional lines properly can break discussions and make things really annoying to reply to

consarn _{(grave) (obituary)} 11:03, 12 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

ultimately, i think the best decision would be to just focus on discussing the content in question, as that's about half of the problem. if it's deemed reliable or better sources are found, all is well and the info can be properly introduced in the articles. if not, it'll unfortunately have to stay as is, be changed into something else, or get tweaked. at the moment, i have no real opinion on the reliability of most of those sources, aside from thinking that using primary sources (in this case, bluesky posts) in a good article is a bad idea regardless. kfm suggested taking it to the articles' talk pages or wp:se so discussion can be reach a couple more people, and i'm with him on that consarn _{(grave) (obituary)} 11:17, 12 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Unless/until current policies and guidelines are changed, you need to follow (and learn) them as they are now if you're going to be contributing to Wikipedia. Otherwise you're just going to keep getting the same results - articles creations being merged, additions being deleted, etc. Sergecross73 msg me 11:55, 12 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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