Talk:Khatumo State

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POV/Neutrality cleanup template added

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The page currently presents a one-sided view of recent/current events, with exceptionally strong bias in favor of the government of Somalia. Systematic removal of WP:UNDUE content that aims to damage the image of Somaliland is necessary. In addition to trimming the page, further changes will be necessary: either a complete rewrite by an unbiased third party, OR introduction of pro-Somaliland viewpoints to counterbalance opinions posted throughout this page. Only then should the flag be removed. Just-a-can-of-beans (talk) 04:36, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What parts of the article would you say have a bias? The statements made by the UN and human rights organizations against Somaliland should remain. It is important context for the formation of SSC Khatumo. limegreencoral (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 23:06, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Request for cleanup of the article

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Hi @Freetrashbox, I am working on a major cleanup of the page to improve the structure, tone, and trim unnecessary content.

The edits I would like to make include the removal of dead links and duplicate content, merging redundant sections for clarity, adding citations for recent government developments, and improving the overall neutral tone.

Currently, parts of the page read more like a war chronicle than a balanced summary.

Let me know what you think of my proposed revision. Sifeeye (talk) 11:39, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

and Maakhir&diff=1285558031&oldid=1285554160 I compared your edits with the current version, but the parts you added do not have any supporting sources. Wikipedia is not a place to write what you know, but a place to write based on sources. Freetrashbox (talk) 12:45, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your response. I see the issue regarding sourcing, and I’ll work on finding reliable sources to support the additions I wanted to make. Sifeeye (talk) 12:51, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Freetrashbox
I'd appreciate if you can check the new revision. Sifeeye (talk) 22:55, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The added text is based on sources and is fine. However, text written by others based on sources should not be deleted. Freetrashbox (talk) 12:42, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

North East State confirmed!!!

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According to the Ministry of Federal Affairs on Twitter, the state has been confirmed. Zabezt (talk) 21:29, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Zabezt: Thank you for posting this here, this is actually how I learned about the decision! Johnson524 15:08, 7 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 30 July 2025

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. No evidence that the proposed name is the common name. Discussion also varies on alternative proposed titles. – robertsky (talk) 20:12, 20 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Khatumo State and Maakhir → North Eastern State of SomaliaNorth Eastern State of Somalia – New state has been created. Limegreencoral (talk) 21:38, 30 July 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Ivey (talk - contribs) 22:33, 6 August 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPathtalk 05:44, 16 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: the second proposal was added because North Eastern State of Somalia is a page with content and must also be dispositioned. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. – welcome! – 16:21, 2 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note2: the second proposal, "North Eastern State of Somalia → ?", has been removed because the "North Eastern State of Somalia" article has failed AfD and has been redirected to Khatumo State. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. – welcome! – 18:30, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It's best if Waqooyi Bari (North Eastern State) has its own article rather than merging since they are two different entities with distinct backgrounds and formation process.
I would also suggest waiting a bit before making any major changes to the Khatumo State page such as tense shifts or grammar revisions as this is still developing news. Sifeeye (talk) 22:56, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Limegreencoral I’ve created a stub article for North Eastern State of Somalia based on the recent official SONNA announcements. Since this is developing news and a different entity, I thought it best to have a separate. Sifeeye (talk) 23:53, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for taking the initiative. I'm actually fine with it being a separate article. In this case, Khatumo can be seen as the former interim administration succeeded by Waqooyi Bari. Limegreencoral (talk) 00:28, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No! Limegreencoral, I thought you were going to give a solid opinion on this matter. Since you're involved in articles about Somalia's federal member states, why not support the view that Khaatumo was already an established federal member state, and the Maakhir region joined it on July 30, 2025? They then agreed to rename the state 'Northeastern State.' The Khaatumo State article should simply be renamed, with the merger included in the history section. Creating or keeping a separate Northeastern State article only duplicates content and offers nothing new for readers. Renaming the Khaatumo article is more useful, as it already has background and historical context. Please don’t support creating a new article just for a name change. Majid8097 (talk) 05:39, 3 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Khatumo was previously announced as being a federal member state, I agree with this. Waqooyi Bari came from the SSC conference and was part of the state finalization process which led later to form with Maakhir state a new state. I don't believe Khatumo had governance over the Makhir regions, but Waqooyi Bari now claims it. There is a new name, new flag, new constitution, an expansion of area governed, and a new seat allocation to reflect the inclusion of Makhir representatives. Whether or not this constitutes an entirely different entity, I'm not sure. I originally just wanted to change the article name, but I'm fine with either decision. If the articles are merged into one, then the relevant information should be included about the change. Limegreencoral (talk) 09:26, 3 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Perfect then, glad we’re on the same page! Since we both agree it was a merger and renaming, let’s go ahead with renaming the Khaatumo article to Northeastern State of Somalia and update the history section with the merger details, new flag, and constitution. That way everything stays in one place with full context. Waqooyi Bari was just a region that got absorbed into Khaatumo, and as part of the merger, they agreed to rename Khaatumo to reflect the expanded territory. Majid8097 (talk) 09:40, 3 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

With news of the ratification of the newly declared state of Waqooyi Bari, I think the article name and flags should be changed.

https://x.com/MoIFARSomalia/status/1950662053796209089

https://x.com/MoIFARSomalia/status/1950646816569168334 Limegreencoral (talk) 21:29, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Official name is Waqooyi Bari Soomaliyaa. North Eastern State of Somalia. Limegreencoral (talk) 21:44, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Wait to see how reliable english sources call it. The change is very recent. Wowzers122 (talk) 22:29, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. I've seen both North East and North Eastern used. We'll have to wait and see what the official English version is from other sources as well. I'm more inclined to go with the latter based on the Ministry of Interiors post. https://x.com/MoIFARSomalia/status/1950640851690115200 Limegreencoral (talk) 22:43, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I agree WP:TOOSOON and WP:N see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/North Eastern State of Somalia QalasQalas (talk) 13:43, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't the Federal Government of Somalia's publishing a reliable source? They officially call "North Eastern State of Somalia"??? Majid8097 (talk) 04:19, 1 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I would think so, but im unsure if Wikipedia would allow that. It would be classed as a primary source, or original research - something like that. Regardless, the media wikipedia relys on should begin talking about it.
Khatuumo state and North Eastern State should remain as two different article, at least for now. Once the North East State article gets more content. All of the Khatuumo stuff can be thrown in as history, and info about preceding unofficial government structure of Khatuumo. And make it a redirect. Best solution which sets up well for the future. Which is why im also against the deletion of North Eastern State article. Dervish10 (talk) 14:45, 1 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I understand your view, but I respectfully disagree. North Eastern State is not an entirely new or separate entity; it’s the outcome of a merger between Khaatumo State (which had already achieved federal member state status in early 2025) and Maakhir (a regional administration). Given that, the Khaatumo State article can and should be updated to reflect this evolution, it's a natural continuation I believe.
If a separate article is to be created at all, it should be under Maakhir, which already existed as a regional identity. Creating a brand new article for North Eastern State at this stage feels like North Eastern State existed before Khaatumo.
It’s better to build on the history and legitimacy already established in the Khaatumo State article and note the merger there rather than splitting attention and risking confusion with a standalone article that currently lacks strong sourcing or distinction. Majid8097 (talk) 16:39, 1 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
OK. I was not aware that Khatumo achieved any federal state status, at least in the view of the federal government. From what I can understand it was in limbo until this recent declaration of a new state following the meeting of various government officials and local leaders, which officially ratified the Federal member state status.
Your comment made me think of a new question. If Khatumo were to be renamed, what would happen to the Maakhir article? North Eastern State encompasses both areas.
I agree with you. Its a continuation, but its not entirely the same thing.
Maybe the problem is the Khatuumo page is too detailed? Dervish10 (talk) 03:16, 3 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah exactly. Khaatumo was already a federal member state and the Federal Government announced its membership in early 2025, and the merger just expanded its base. Maakhir can be included in the history section, but making a whole new article feels like restarting the story from scratch when it's really a continuation under a new name. Long story short; Khaatumo became a Federal Member State officially in early 2025 and Maakhir joined it now then they decided to 'rename' it Northestern State. Now you got it, right? Majid8097 (talk) 05:32, 3 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • I support a move to either North Eastern State of Somalia or Waqooyi Bari. North Eastern is more common than "North East" ([1]). "Waqooyi Bari" is also used in English sources (which simply means north east in Somali language). "Waqooyi Bari" is more common than alternative spellings such as "waqooyibari" or "Waqooyi-bari". 82.45.168.148 (talk) 11:30, 4 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait, to soon for the name change. The page is also short enough that a split between two very closely related topics is not needed. CMD (talk) 08:04, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Relisting comment: consensus currently is to wait, so let's see what another 7 days brings Ivey (talk - contribs) 22:33, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Somaliland and WikiProject Somalia have been notified of this discussion. Ivey (talk - contribs) 22:34, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support although I think it should be named North East State of Somalia (East instead of Eastern) for consistency with the South West State of Somalia article. Zabezt (talk) 20:40, 15 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Somaliland and WikiProject Somalia have been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPathtalk 05:47, 16 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I also agree with Zabezt, since the South West State article uses 'South West State of Somalia', it would be more consistent for Woqooyi Bari to be titled North East State of Somalia. Majid8097 (talk) 06:36, 16 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support to "North East State of Somalia" for consistency reasons which Zabezt, as well as already some WP:COMMONNAME coverage by Bloomberg. Thank you for the ping at WikiProject Somaliland @TarnishedPath: cheers! Johnson524 21:59, 16 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose You cant just make an argument for WP:COMMONNAME using just a single source 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 13:11, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support to "North East State of Somalia" for reasons listed above. There are also other sources using the name, like this one for the recent parliament announcement. [2] Limegreencoral (talk) 17:04, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Why isn't the article name changed to North East State of Somalia? I tried to find an article with the same name, there was one before but it got deleted? the legitimate name of the state today is North East State so calling it Khatumo is not accurate as it's also part of Makhir Yurei122 (talk) 04:31, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That short lived stub article became a redirect to this article. As for the name change I have no idea, call me impatient but this RM has been going on for nearly a month and the last relisting was over a week ago. And most of us here seem to be in favor of the article's name being changed to "North East State of Somalia". Zabezt (talk) 16:55, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This is the official government statement from the Ministry of Interior recently. Confirms that it is called the North East State of Somalia and that the Khatumo name is no more.
https://x.com/MoIFARSomalia/status/1962129820143243504? Limegreencoral (talk) 10:02, 1 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Paine Ellsworth, Abo Yemen, Andrewa, Chipmunkdavis, Dervish10, Johnson524
Apologies for tagging multiple users at once, but given that you are the primary parties involved in this discussion, I felt it necessary to do so. I believe we can finally update the article to North East State of Somalia. The Ministry of Interior officially uses this name, and it aligns with the naming of an existing federal member state and its article, South West State of Somalia. Majid8097 (talk) 18:57, 1 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the tag, it was helpful and did no damage that I can see. But disagree that we can finally update the article to North East State of Somalia. Whether or not The Ministry of Interior officially uses this name is not terribly relevant. Whether it aligns with the naming of an existing federal member state and its article is only slightly relevant. The main question is, do reliable secondary sources now use the new name? That's the evidence that is needed in order to justify the proposed change to the article name. No change of !vote, nor of recommendation that we close this RM and start again if a case can be made. Andrewa (talk) 22:50, 1 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The overall consensus is mixed, but its leaning mostly to supporting the name change especially amongst editors involved in Somali topics. So I say go ahead, change it to Northeastern State of Somalia, Waqooyi Bari.
I did a search, a few sources are using the new name.
trt . global/afrika-english/article/16859a176f5a
theeastafrican .co.ke/tea/news/east-africa/the-making-of-somalia-new-northeast-state-5178184 Dervish10 (talk) 10:08, 3 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Nomination gave no valid rationale... New state has been created... and discussion has gone downhill from there, too many irregularities to sort out. Let us close this mess and see whether a valid RM (one proposed in terms of WP:AT) or other proposal can then be considered. Andrewa (talk) 00:09, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Other flag?

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Khatumo apparently had a different flag than the current NE State has, that was used on Wikipedia before. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Khaatumo_State_of_Somalia.svg Higgs In Space (talk) 18:27, 28 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Added it in the history section Dn9ahx (talk) 07:39, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 September 2025

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31.49.141.218 (talk) 09:30, 10 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

His all, In correct information and map it's somaliland as it was in 1960 borders

Kind Regards ←

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. CMD (talk) 11:30, 10 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 20 September 2025

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. With multiple relistings with no other editors coming forth to Support, the established consensus from the very recent prior RM prevails. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 16:35, 14 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Khatumo State → North East State of Somalia – The official name for the new administration via the Somali Government and State Media.

There is also WP:COMMONNAME coverage by The East African, africa.com, Dawan Africa and Bloomberg. Zabezt (talk) 22:00, 20 September 2025 (UTC) — Relisting.  veko. (user | talk | contribs) he/him 02:38, 28 September 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 01:14, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • An RM shouldn't be opened on the same day the previous one is closed. Common name also requires a stronger analysis, other forms are noted above and easily found in a quick search. CMD (talk) 07:48, 28 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Somaliland and WikiProject Somalia have been notified of this discussion. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 01:14, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.