User talk:Bouncy99

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Happy editing! Peaceray (talk) 22:47, 15 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A WP-article about Sydney S. Cohen

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Hello, I saw your post at the Teahouse. I might be able to help you start an article, but it will very likely be much more bare bones than you'd like.

I saw these [1][2] (Wikipedians love NYT) and I've searched "Sydney S. Cohen" "Motion Picture Theatre" in a couple of archives like ProQuest and newspapers.com, getting some interesting hits including "MRS. O'GRADY DENIES NEAR-PANIC CHARGES: Says She and Her Police Women Were Careful to Avoid Disturbances in Theatres." [3] and "Between Free Speech and Propaganda: Denaturing the Political in the Early American Movie Industry" [4]. I also saw https://sydneyscohen.wordpress.com/, but WP:BLOG. However, if we make an article, we'll put that in the External links section.

So, would you be interested in helping me trying to make something? Since this concerns your relative, take a look at Wikipedia:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing, much of it is relevant. Adding a ping to my WP-friends @Michael D. Turnbull and @MediaKyle if they want to comment. If I understood it correctly, Bouncy99 is the subjects grandson. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:01, 16 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Plenty of hits on the customised Google search, with many from columbia.edu, which do seem to be the correct Cohen but in some that I looked at are not WP:SIGCOV. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:00, 16 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This is a cool story, thanks for the ping. Just for the hell of it, I started digging for sources and somewhat formatting them in a draft, see Draft:Sydney S. Cohen. One of them even has a nice picture of him we could use, as it's old enough. I'll see what else I can come up with for you. MediaKyle (talk) 12:49, 16 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@MediaKyle How do you sfn-cite something like the NYT-obit, when there is no author name? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:38, 16 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You don't have to do the references that way if you find it to be a headache, I just set it up like that because that's how I'm used to doing it. If you want to use sfns though, probably my best example so far would be at Lloyd MacInnis. If you don't like having the name of the publication listed twice you can set the sfn anchors manually like I used to do on articles like Greg MacLeod, but I'm pretty sure the former is the "right" way to do them. -- MediaKyle (talk) 14:51, 16 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@MediaKyle Too late, you claimed the HOLY right of WP:REFVAR. But I like you anyway. Still can't make it work, though:[5]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:06, 16 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It worked, I just forgot to add the reflist template under citations when I started. Should be good to go now. I saw a ton more hits on Google Books too by the way, I just added one that had a particular amount of details, but it might be worth checking out the others. Oodles of hits on Newspapers.com as well. MediaKyle (talk) 15:17, 16 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I could have noticed that myself, but I'm a ref-tag Wikipedian when I can. And we can discuss article content further at Draft talk:Sydney S. Cohen. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:24, 16 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Speaking of pictures, File:Allen “Farina” Hoskins and Sydney S. Cohen in 1926.jpg. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:46, 16 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks - I understand, and agree with Wikipedia's position on articles about relatives. Based on the large number of references about S.S.C. which are available, one could evaluate the merits and noteworthiness of his activities. These are of particular interest to movie historians, and to those interested in the history of the movie theater business. Bouncy99 (talk) 04:19, 17 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I was thinking of doing this on my own because I have tons of material, but your suggestion about working together somehow might have possibilities. Was your thought about an article about SSC? Like a modest version of Samuel Goldwyn? I was aware of the "relative problem" on Wikipedia (good policy).
I'm kind of assuming you might have seen https://sydneyscohen.wordpress.com/ .my blog about SSC. Just about everything is referenced, and/or, a direct quote. Given all this, what do you think? Bouncy99 (talk) 04:29, 17 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Your thread has been archived

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Hello Bouncy99! The thread you created at the Teahouse, Wish to create a new article, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days.

You can still read the archived discussion. If you have follow-up questions, please create a new thread.

See also the help page about the archival process. The archival was done by lowercase sigmabot III, and this notification was delivered by KiranBOT, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=KiranBOT}} on top of the current page (your user talk page). —KiranBOT (talk) 03:06, 19 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Help with Sydney S. Cohen

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Hi, I saw your post in the Teahouse, I'd be happy to help you revise the article. It's a very good start, but I have some ideas-- first, there needs to be inline citations, not just a list of sources at the bottom. Secondly, there are a couple spots where the wording seems a bit biased (which is understandable if you're related to Mr. Cohen), so I could help with that. And I know it was flagged for possibly coming from an LLM, so as long as you didn't actually use AI to write it, I could try to adjust the tone a bit to seem a little more Wikipedia-esque. I've never collaborated on a Wikipedia article before, so I'm not entirely sure how to go about it, but let me know if there's anything else specific you need help with, and I can definitely consult with you before I change anything if you want. A. E. Katz (talk) 03:50, 4 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi - thanks for your reply. I understand and agree with all your comments and suggestions, and am pleased and grateful for your offer to help with the SSC article. I've not done this style of collaboration, either, but have some thoughts about how we could work together in a straight forward manner. I have worked in research and have co-written journal articles and grant applications, so I'm familiar with citing resources, though I didn't succeed with this first draft.
>Work environment and method:
Is there a collaborative work space on Wikipedia - like a sandbox - where we could work together, as opposed to a community-wide space? Another approach might be a shared workplace on Google. This would be easy to set up and I believe could work well for this stage of collaboration.
>Specific needs:
1) Inline citations, as you mentioned. 2) Edit subjective or evaluative text; replace with well-documented statements. 3) Add some events, actions, and people which are significant, and well-documented. I have these materials. 4) Make suggestions.
>Personal stuff:
Sydney S. Cohen was my grandfather. He died before I was born. I understand and agree with Wikipedia concerns about relatives. In this case, the recognition and documentation of his work makes the case. I am 81-years of age and feel obliged, happily, to share this history. I have his business/professional scrapbook in my possession. It contains letters from presidents and heavy hitting documents and articles. It was reviewed by the Margaret Herrick Library at The Academy of Motion Pictures Museum. They requested I donate it to the library.
So, what do you think about procedures at this point? I'm grateful for your offer to help.
Peter Crown
Tucson, Arizona Bouncy99 (talk) 22:03, 4 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Peter,
That sounds good, I look forward to working with you! I am only 21, so I don't have nearly the professional experience you do, but I hope I can still help! I can look into the sandbox thing to see if that might work for us, otherwise collaborating on google could be good. I'll get back to you here soon.
-- Anna A. E. Katz (talk) 13:28, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I looked into using a sandbox, we could try that first and if it's not that great to use, we could switch to a shared workplace on google instead. Do you know how to access your sandbox? Using yours would probably be best since it's your article we're working on. I don't think I can access your sandbox without a link, so let me know if you can get to it, otherwise I could give you instructions. A. E. Katz (talk) 21:47, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I used the link User:Bouncy99/sandbox Bouncy99 (talk) 22:23, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That link went to Sydney S. Cohen Is that the sand box? If not, please send the link to me. Bouncy99 (talk) 22:25, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Try clicking on the link again, I think I was able to change it so it no longer redirects to the Sydney S Cohen page. We should be able to use it now, I hope. A. E. Katz (talk) 17:24, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Anna. I'm out driving around now- my phone is not up to the task, but I'm eager to follow up on your edited link. 2600:1011:B093:FB9:3883:2E73:1380:F54F (talk) 19:33, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No problem, just let me know when you can! A. E. Katz (talk) 01:26, 7 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Anna, Is this where we should be? ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Bouncy99/sandbox&action=edit )
And if so, do you think it's a better work environment than Google? I'm comfortable with either one.
So, where to begin? Your original offer, observations and direction are great, and I'd say any place and any way you want to dive in will be ok. Just getting started is so often the challenge.
  1. The AI version that's flagged has some references (not inline) but in fact, there are many more available. Would it help you to see others? There is an ENORMOUS literature on the history of the movie business - it can be overwhelming, but whatever we need will be available,
  2. What do you think about this: The posted "AI version" includes some summary statements, almost opinions, somewhat subjective. I presume we need to address things like this, right? I.E., state historic, documentable facts and leave out interpretation. Ya' think?
  3. I believe I have some homework to do: In my eagerness to get started on the article, I left out some heavy duty stuff which will be important. E.G., SSC, with the help of his friend, Al Smith, Governor of the State of New York, led the way to changing the blue laws such that movie theaters were allowed to be open on Sundays. https://sydneyscohen.wordpress.com/?s=waldorf Why such a big event for Sunday movies? "It’s about money. The gross revenues of the film industry in 1919 were $800-million which in 2015 dollars would be $8.25-billion! And considering that blue laws kept most movie theaters dark on Sundays, imagine the additional revenues which ensued from Sunday openings. Roughly speaking, if the $8.25-billion came from six-days per week, adding a seventh day would add another $1.4-billion in revenues!" Source: Frank Waterhouse & Company’s Pacific Ports.
So, here's an amazing coincidence! Maybe you already know about it. A new series just dropped on NETFLIX called "TITANS: The Rise of Hollywood". I don't know yet if Sydney will be mentioned, but all the major players, issues, laws, and rivalries which he was involved with are the focus of the series.
Anna, I'm so grateful for your help with his project. And, if at any time it becomes burdensome, let me know and we'll find a solution.
Peter Bouncy99 (talk) 20:35, 7 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the late reply! Yes, that is the correct link to the sandbox. We could try working in it, but honestly, Google might be a bit easier to use, maybe we could create a shared document through google?
  1. I think it would be helpful for me to see some of the resources that you've been using-- are any of them available digitally at all?
  2. I agree, that sounds good.
  3. Interesting!
  4. No, I hadn't heard of that Netflix show, but it sounds cool (and relevant)!
I think the next step would be to decide where/how to work on the article together, then after that I might like to take a look at the sources and start from there. What do you think?
Anna A. E. Katz (talk) 21:56, 8 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Anna,
No problem about reply time. We all have lives outside of Wikipedia!
So, let's try using Google Docs and see how it works for us. Let me know if this link gives you full access, such that you can edit and create docs. Do you know how to handle references and citations on Wikipedia? And, will our work on G transfer to W? Or will we need to re-enter things?
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mY0KTJw_y49bOc9-HpRtUnRgoi22-9mO?usp=drive_link
Resources: Yikes!
  1. My Blog: https://sydneyscohen.wordpress.com/
  2. https://lantern.mediahist.org/about
  3. https://mediahistoryproject.org/
Then, I entered this query into ChatGBT - "what are some online resources, libraries, digital collections which pertain to the early history of the movie theater business?" Try it. Unbelievable! The quantity and quality of resources is overwhelming -- and certainly will be extremely helpful.
Where? Google should be fine. Let me know if you have full access to that folder.
How? This is my first online collaboration, so we'll just make up a simple method to suit ourselves. I find the hardest task is just getting started. I can provide an outline, expanding a bit on the existing draft article. Then, let's arbitrarily pick a topic and start on it. I'd be interested in your top picks because I'm so close to the material that I might not be representative of our potential audience.
So, let me know if the Google link works, and what you think about the game plan.
Peter
...oh, I just started watching Titans - Chapter 4: It starts off with how Zukor was taking control of the entire movie industry. Zukor later wrote that "...Cohen must be destroyed and his organization broken down ..."
https://sydneyscohen.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/zukor-threatens-cohen-1923.jpg Bouncy99 (talk) 23:47, 8 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I just requested access to the folder as an editor, so I think you'd need to approve that before I can see it. Once you give me access, I should be able to see and edit things, but I'll let you know. Yes, I know how to make citations on Wikipedia, and I can definitely do that for you. No, our work on Google will not automatically transfer to Wikipedia, we would have to copy and paste it in manually. Maybe I could make suggestions for the article on the Google document, you can decide what you think, and then if you approve I could transfer the suggested edits to the Wikipedia article itself? Does that sound good?
Anna A. E. Katz (talk) 19:42, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Anna, I believe you should now have access to our folder on G. I'm including this link just in case. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mY0KTJw_y49bOc9-HpRtUnRgoi22-9mO
Do you have access now?
All your suggestions are right on! I welcome your help, and will be most interested in your ideas for the article. As I think I mentioned, I'm so close to the topic that I think your observations/suggestions will benefit the article.
I'm thinking about making additional and more descriptive topic points as a way to focus on things-- keeping me/us from feeling overwhelmed I'll let you know when I've done this. In the meantime, please feel free to dive in and do whatever seems helpful in moving things along. Given your help, and from gaining clarity and context from the "Titan" series, I'm feeling good about things.
Peter Bouncy99 (talk) 20:49, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I checked and I do have access now. It looks like you have a lot of good stuff so far! I can start by using the "Suggesting" tool on the google doc so you can tell what I want to change more easily and see what you think. I hope I can be of help! A. E. Katz (talk) 21:02, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The "Suggesting" tool seems fine -- let's keep using it.
I am working on a narrow, defined topic as a way getting started in the midst of overwhelm -- it's about the legalization of Sunday movies in New York State. I pasted a lot of material about it on https://docs.google.com/document/d/10uT5zrGpUvsIM_o-tXYjj4CsvrS78LU7aqJlsnZ5XWE/edit?usp=sharing
My goal is to condense the salient points into a few sentences. Do you think you could help write those sentences? Or, better that I write them and you edit text and add references? Bouncy99 (talk) 04:13, 10 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I looked at the document, it's 22 pages so I wasn't clear on exactly what you wanted to condense, unless it's all of it? Just let me know and I can start working on it. A. E. Katz (talk) 21:19, 10 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
So sorry - I did not finish what I set out to do. I'm editing/condensing right now. I'm trying to be super careful with references. I'm hoping we can present the case that:
  1. cohen played a significant role in changing the Sunday movie law in New York.
  2. sunday movie showings increased ticket sales, A LOT!!!
It's 2:30 where I am (AZ) and I'll create a fresh page for us to work on. Bouncy99 (talk) 21:30, 10 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No worries. I'll be busy most of tomorrow, so I won't have much time to work on it, but I'll check back in when I can. A. E. Katz (talk) 01:46, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Anna, I'm back... please remind me where we left off. I'm hoping to get back to work on this tomorrow.
Peter Bouncy99 (talk) 04:15, 19 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm very sorry Peter, I've been busy with school and got sidetracked! But I would be happy to continue working with you. Last time, I added some citations to the Wikipedia page and made the edits that I had suggested. I can add in the rest of the sources as citations, but do you have any suggestions on what to do after that? Apologies again for the delay,
Anna A. E. Katz (talk) 22:09, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Anna, it's me who's been out of touch. No worries... really!
So, after you add the sources as citations, let's wrap up this section on Sunday openings and move on to a new topic. One point about Sundays is it increased ticket sales for sure, but it's very hard to find supporting data for the movie theater biz in 1919. Wanna take a try on that for a bit? Only if you find it interesting.
I'll continue on the "Sundays" topic for now. What do you think? Bouncy99 (talk) 04:36, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, I think that sounds interesting, we can try to see if we can dig anything relevant up! A. E. Katz (talk) 00:53, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]