Talk:Suicide of Lia Smith

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Requested move 1 November 2025

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) Thanks, Glasspalace (talk | contribs) 05:30, 8 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Death of Lia Smith → Suicide of Lia Smith – Her death is ruled a suicide. Follows standard naming procedures, like in Suicide of Tyler Clementi, Suicide of Amanda Todd, Suicide of Megan Meier, Suicide of Tyrone Unsworth etc. jolielover♥talk 05:14, 1 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support in accordance with WP:DEATHS. ★ The Green Star Collector ★ (talk) 23:02, 2 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. If the lede is using 'died by' then we should keep it labeled a death. MOS:SUICIDE: The phrase committed suicide is neither recommended nor banned on the English Wikipedia. We shouldn't have the title be one thing while the lede uses another. Babysharkb☩ss2 I am Thou, Thou art I 16:10, 4 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    That's... different? This is a proposed move to Suicide of Lia Smith, not Committed suicide of Lia Smith. The lead says she died by suicide. How else do you frame it? If a killing, such as through manslaughter, Wikipedia uses 'killing of'. If a murder, Wikipedia says 'murder of'. It's only really 'death of' when the circumstances of a death are 1) Not clear, like in Death of Caylee Anthony 2) only second to who has died, like Death of Adolf Hitler. As Lia Smith is notable for her suicide, the article should be titled as such. This also follows WP:DEATHS. jolielover♥talk 17:37, 4 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per reason given above by jolielover. -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 18:12, 4 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Alternative: Lia Smith. I concede first that if it were correct to title the article after Smith's death, WP:DEATHS would support the MR. But the article barely touches on her death at all, reserving only one paragraph for it and mentioning no cause of death other than a ruling of suicide. The recent WP:RS seem to focus heavily on her life rather than her cause of death, and the article already has two WP:RS from before her death. This clashes with the examples provided, where the article subject was WP:NOTABLE only for their suicide. WP:PRECISION counsels naming the article after the subject, not only her death. Ilvekset (talk) 08:06, 7 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. You can locate your hook here. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron talk 17:13, 14 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Created by Willthacheerleader18 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 342 past nominations.

Launchballer 07:18, 8 November 2025 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

Hook eligibility:

QPQ: No - Not done
Overall: @Launchballer: I believe the part of the source you're relying on to support the hook is "To call her death merely a suicide misses the larger truth—no suicide happens in a vacuum. Policies designed to make life unlivable for transgender people bear responsibility too; every trans suicide is a murder by those in power". This doesn't explicitly state "politicians" but "those in power" which could equally be taken to mean those in power in the university bureaucracy. I'd suggest a slight rewording of the hook. Also you need two QPQs for this. Can I please get another. TarnishedPathtalk 08:09, 8 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Josèphe Jacquiot is a double nom, so counts as two QPQs. ALT0a: ... that the recent suicide of Lia Smith has been blamed on anti-transgender policies?--Launchballer 08:17, 8 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
ALT0a approved. TarnishedPathtalk 08:33, 8 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Theleekycauldron: ALT1: ... that Lia Smith spoke at a protest forum titled Trans Healthcare is NOT a Debate! just before her death?--Launchballer 01:29, 14 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
ALT1 approved. TarnishedPathtalk 02:06, 14 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've found another couple of sources to back up ALT0, so I'm happy to promote that one now. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 17:13, 14 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]


Requested move 12 December 2025 (previously shown as December 3)

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Suicide of Lia Smith → Lia Purcell SmithLia Purcell Smith – As submitter, I am opposed to this proposal. But it has been discussed here for some time without using the proper template, so it has not been listed as a formal requested move. I am converting the discussion to the proper format so that others will know about it, so that it will be listed at WP:Requested moves. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:31, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Suicide of Lia Smith –> Lia Purcell Smith. This article is mostly about the life of Lia Smith and does not focus on her death, although her suicide was tragic. As Lia's parents, we respectfully request the page to be titled with her name "Lia Purcell Smith" rather than the method of her death. I am adding a new topic as the previous discussion is noted as closed. Keifferz (talk) 22:47, 3 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

— Keifferz (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:31, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! As Lia's good friend, I agree that the name of this article should be changed. Lia did not want to be famous, let alone for her identity or for a tragedy like this. Thank you. Lilith Rosabella (talk) 04:49, 10 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Keifferz: and @Lilith Rosabella: I've added this page to WP:Requested_moves/Technical requests#Uncontroversial technical requests, so, soon, it should be either moved or declined. Both of your reasons are fair, especially the first sentence of the first comment. Thanks. 🫀 Crash // Organhaver (talk to me, maybe?) 05:41, 10 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The request has been contested. The current title was chosen by a formal RM discussion, so fundamentally changing it would not be an obviously uncontroversial action. Instructions for filing a formal RM are at WP:RM. Moreover, there wouldn't be a Wikipedia article about her if she hadn't died by suicide. That is her primary source of notability. I see no reason to change the current title. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 06:24, 11 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for adding this, I hadn't seen that the requested move was declined. After re-reading the article, this makes complete sense and I don't really know how I thought it was different. But, yeah. Thanks, again. 🫀 Crash // Organhaver (talk to me, maybe?) 06:29, 11 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@BarrelProof @Lilith RosabellaThe statement "there wouldn't be a Wikipedia article about her if she hadn't died by suicide. That is her primary source of notability. " is false. Lia was publicly doxed as a trans college athlete prior to her death. Also, the previous move discussion rational that "Her death is ruled a suicide. Follows standard naming procedures, like in Suicide of Tyler Clementi" is also false. Of the 71 suicides of 2025 in Wikipedia, only 2, including this one, are named "Suicide of ...". This page should be moved to "Lia Purcell Smith" like the 69 other 2025 suicide pages. ~2025-40215-42 (talk) 22:46, 11 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@BarrelProof @Lilith RosabellaThe statement "there wouldn't be a Wikipedia article about her if she hadn't died by suicide. That is her primary source of notability. " is false. Lia was publicly doxed as a trans college athlete prior to her death. Also, the previous move discussion rational that "Her death is ruled a suicide. Follows standard naming procedures, like in Suicide of Tyler Clementi" is also false. Of the 71 suicides of 2025 in Wikipedia, only 2, including this one, are named "Suicide of ...". This page should be moved to "Lia Purcell Smith" like the 69 other 2025 suicide pages. ~2025-40215-42 (talk) 22:46, 11 December 2025 (UTC) Keifferz (talk) 22:48, 11 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I looked at some of the other articles in Category:2025 suicides, and the ones I looked at that are named differently seemed to be people who were already public figures before their deaths. A couple of them have articles that don't even explicitly mention how the person died (see Sethomo Lelatisitswe). When I look at the sources cited in this article about Lia Smith, all of them seem to have been written after her disappearance and death and to focus substantially on that. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:08, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@BarrelProof Your assessment is subjective. see George P. Abraham - Wikipedia. Indian urologist, page created post suicide. see Andrew Huse - Wikipedia. American historian, page created post suicide. see Nicolas Beaucaire - Wikipedia. Swiss actor, page created post suicide. see Hugues Oyarzabal - Wikipedia. surfer, page created post suicide. There are many more. The previous move discussion rational that "Her death is ruled a suicide. Follows standard naming procedures, like in Suicide of Tyler Clementi" is false. Keifferz (talk) 00:32, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Dr. Abraham had a five-decade pioneering medical career involving transplant surgery and was called the best urologist in India, the most populous country in the world. He was well known before he died, and the manner of his death is not mentioned in the lead section of the article about him. In fact, it is not mentioned until the very last sentence of that article. If he died of a heart attack in his sleep, there might still be an article about him – only differing by the description of how he died at around age 75 when he wasn't able to continue being proficient in surgery and had to retire. I didn't bother to look at all the others you listed, but that's the example you put up front, and the others look somewhat similar. Successful writers, actors, and professional athletes tend to be famous – indeed, being famous tends to be a fundamental part of their role in society. 21-year-old students at small colleges in towns with populations of less than 10,000 tend not to be very famous. Smith's most notable action that is discussed extensively in independent reliable sources was her suicide. Anyhow, we're just wasting characters on a Talk page here. If you want to propose changing the name of the article, you should follow the process of opening a formal RM discussion as described at WP:RM. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:45, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@BarrelProof "Dr. Abraham ..was called the best urologist in India" is false. This article has multiple issues. The topic of this article may not meet Wikipedia's notability guideline for biographies. (May 2025) Keifferz (talk) 02:07, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
One of the cited sources says that in its headline. If you think the article topic is not notable, I suggest to use the WP:AfD process to get it deleted. You chose to highlight that article as an example, not me. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:35, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
So if we're being pedantic, there are currently three articles including this one, not two, in Category:2025 suicides that are named "Suicide of..." Additionally, eight of the 71 entries in that category - the ones in italics - are not actually articles at all; they are redirects to sections of other articles.
Re "best urologist in India", that specific phrase appears to be taken from the title of one of the cites (archive link); it is not actually stated in that or any other currently cited article AFAICT. Funcrunch (talk) 02:33, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
My knowledge of Dr. Abraham is limited to what I see in the Wikipedia article about him. The article may have problems, but it clearly does not focus on the suicide of the subject. It clearly presents the topic as notable for other reasons and barely mentions suicide. It is just provided as the cause of death of a bigraphical subject, the same way a heart attack would have been treated. If the article has problems, I highly recommend fixing it or deleting it. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:40, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per arguments by User:BarrelProof and other editors. 🫀 Crash // Organhaver (talk to me, maybe?) 06:31, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I started the article as Death of Lia Smith but, per conversation above, it was moved to Suicide of Lia Smith, which I voted for given the argument regarding how other pages were similarly titled. I personally do not feel strongly whether the article be named Lia Smith, Lia Purcell Smith, Death of Lia Smith, or Suicide of Lia Smith, although I think the latter two make more sense given most of the sources regarding the notability of the subject are about her death. -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 18:23, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]