User talk:Richard Nevell

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Oxford city walls

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Hi Richard, hope you are keeping well. In my manic pursuit of the more obscure Grade I listed buildings - see this - I came across Grade I listed buildings in Oxford where there are no less than 27 Grade I listings for elements of the city walls. And I think they are also a scheduled monument. Somewhat to my surprise, we don't have an article on these city walls. I'm therefore intending to do what will be an inadequate Start article on them, but medieval architecture is not really my area of expertise. I shall ping you when I'm done and, if you have time, I'd be really grateful if you'd have a quick look and make any suggestions for improvement/sourcing etc. But you may not have time, which I will quite understand. It's a real pity that User:Hchc2009 didn't cover it. I shall take his Southampton city walls as my model. All the very best. KJP1 (talk) 13:29, 2 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

p.s. Yes, they are also a SM (NHLE 1003648) but the listing entry's not very informative! KJP1 (talk) 13:37, 2 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hchc2009 did have rather a good line in town walls. I'd be more than happy to take a look. Judging from this list of sources, there's plenty to say about them. Richard Nevell (talk) 14:00, 3 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That's my worry! I don't have, or know of, any of them! But I shall make a Start and others can build on it. Thanks muchly for agreeing to have a look. I shall ping you when there's something to look it. And yes, Hchc is a loss. The FA collaboration on Cardiff Castle we once discussed would have been a blast. Take care. KJP1 (talk) 16:09, 3 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I've made a start, as can be seen above. It could certainly be greatly expanded, by editors familiar with, and with access to, a wider range of sources. But what I'd really like a feel for is: is what I've written accurate / have I misinterpreted anything / have I used the right terminology / have I overlooked any sources/issues which would be immediately obvious to those more familiar with the subject? I see there are some general works, e.g. [1]. Do these cover themes that are really essential to include (answer-almost certainly!)? If you've the opportunity to take a look - no hurry, obviously - I'd really appreciate any feedback. Best regards. KJP1 (talk) 16:34, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
p.s. One thing I did notice, and which isn't helpful, is that the Historic England listing records say practically nothing at all. I think I've looked at all of them, though I may have missed one, and they are among the most uninformative listings I've ever seen. I wonder why. KJP1 (talk) 16:47, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@KJP1: Somewhere in the Historic England archives (with its complicated organisational history) there's probably a typed record of the rationale for listing the walls with a bit more detail. Some digital records have been updated, but many are just as brief. With more than 400,000 entries, it's quite the worklist!
  • Accuracy and interpretation - It's a good sign when Jeremy Haslam's work turns up when discussing early medieval towns. The level of detail is good, explaining antecedents, the development of the walls in the medieval and early modern period, why the walls were demolished, and finally the protecting of what remains. I am not spotting errors, but I do see a couple of areas where more information could be added.
    • In a 2021 paper, Haslam gives an overview of evidence for some stone portions of the per-Conquest city wall. I think that would be worth adding in. Let me kown if you don't have access to the paper.
    • St George's Tower: related to the above, Haslam suggests that St George's Tower was part of the pre-Conquest defence, so it might be worth adding a little about the development of the castle making use of the west part of the circuit.
    • The siege of Oxford in 1142: this is a bit messy because King Stephen managed to capture the town and not the castle, but it feels like a significant moment in the history of the city walls even if they don't seem to have slowed Stephen down.
    • 12th-century seal: The VCH mentions that a seal from the 12-thcentury depicted Oxford as a walled city with battlements. Even allowing for artistic licence, it's instructive as it shows that that is how the city wanted to present itself so I think it's worth adding in briefly.
  • Terminology - All the terminology was used correctly. My one suggestion on this front is that it would be helpful to have a brief note in brackets on what an enceinte is. It's possible that someone may raise an eyebrow at "210 houses in the town ... carry responsibility for raising funds for the wall" as it would have been the people in the houses that had to cough up, but that's how the VCH phrases it so who am I to quibble.
  • Missing sources - A good range of sources have been used. Aside from Haslam 2021, the other source worth including would be Creighton & Higham's 2005 book. I don't think it's been supplanted in the last 20 years as the definitive overview of medieval town walls in Britain. You can get enough context without consulting it to make a good article (and a Good Article). If it was to go to FAC I would expect some reference to the book. So it comes down to what your ambitions for the article are. Do you have a particular result in mind?
One other thing that occurs to me is that the article treats the walls as beginning in the 1220s and the earlier phases as being separate. I can see why because that's the (mostly) extant phase and is a watershed moment in the history of the walls. Partly there's a question of how wide should the net be caste, does it include the Norman phase about which little seems to be known, or extend all the way back to the Saxon defences which perhaps had a different layout?
I'd be happy to contribute to the article after the DYK process has concluded so I'm not reviewing an article I've partly written (even if I just contribute a sentence or two!). Richard Nevell (talk) 19:53, 8 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Richard - sorry, got delayed but now working through these. Down to The Siege and the Seal - sounds like a 1950s Richard Greene episode. KJP1 (talk) 17:32, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So, I think I've done almost all of these, with the following exceptions:

  • Creighton and Higham (2005), Medieval Town Walls - here, I've had to cheat, as I can't get access, so I've used a 2006 review to raise the issue of symbolism as motivation for wall-building, which does sound interesting. Do you happen to have a copy?
  • Stephen and Matilda - I have searched but I just can't find anything that directly relates these two to the town's walls. Oxford Castle, no problem. The closest I've found is the two long-gone mounds, Jews Mount and Mount Pelham, which Gatehouse Gazetteer says followed the line of the wall and may have been thrown up by Stephen, or may have not, [2]! Do you have anything that gives a more direct link?

As to plans for the article, I didn't really have anything in mind, just writing it to cover the 27 Grade I listings, and because we didn't have an article and probably should have done. But we could certainly think about a GA? Anyways, let me know what you think. All the very best and thanks again. KJP1 (talk) 12:13, 12 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have a copy of Creighton & Higham, but need to pop to the library in the next week or two so I can look up the relevant bits then. With Stephen and Matilda, that may be down to my memory. I assumed there would be a link, but it's possible the sources don't go into detail. I'll see what I can pull up, starting with the Gesta Stepahni as that's the go-to primary source for the conflict. Richard Nevell (talk) 17:26, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Promotion of Tell es-Sakan

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Congratulations, Richard Nevell! The article you nominated, Tell es-Sakan, has been promoted to featured status, recognizing it as one of the best articles on Wikipedia. The nomination discussion has been archived.
This is a rare accomplishment and you should be proud. If you would like, you may nominate it to appear on the Main page as Today's featured article. Keep up the great work! Cheers, FrB.TG (talk) via FACBot (talk) 00:07, 10 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well done! Was delighted to see it pass. Ceoil (talk) 01:15, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! I'm especially pleased as it's not a time period I knew much about going in. Richard Nevell (talk) 21:11, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to the DCWC!

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See a    "developing" or    "least developed" country? Write about it to earn points!

Richard Nevell, for the second running of the Developing Countries WikiContest, it is now open for submissions. Welcome to the contest! You can now list your work at your submissions page to earn points. The coordinators have addressed some of the queries at the last contest and we are hopeful that it'll turn out great for you—yes, you! If you haven't done so already, please review the following:

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Tell es-Sakan scheduled for TFA

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This is to let you know that the above article has been scheduled as today's featured article for 13 October 2025. Please check that the article needs no amendments. Feel free to amend the draft blurb, which can be found at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/October 13, 2025, or to make comments on other matters concerning the scheduling of this article at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/October 2025. Please keep an eye on that page, as notifications of copy edits to or queries about the draft blurb may be left there by those who assist the coordinators by reviewing the blurbs, or by others. I also suggest that you watchlist Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors from two days before it appears on the Main Page. Thanks, and congratulations on your work! – SchroCat (talk) 06:42, 19 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]