User talk:KJP1

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Whack!
You've been whacked with a wet trout.

Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know you did something silly.

Worldbruce (talk) 15:01, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What is this trout? Richmond777 (talk) 13:27, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Future use

Notes to self

~~Matthew Brettingham - FAR~~KJP1 (talk) 17:28, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Midland Bank, Poultry - needs expansion.
Raymond Howell - needs an article
John Bryson Crichton-Stuart, 8th Marquess of Bute - needs an article, [4]
Salisbury Cathedral - needs more work.
Winscombe Hall - needs an article.
Do NOT do DYK
~~Grade I listed buildings in Lancashire - two redlinks~~

Dragon

Hi KJP1. I've noticed that you've been reviewing DragonofBatley's edits recently. I have had long-standing concerns about his editing, but have found him difficult to engage with either due to WP:Competence issues or his sometimes highly combative tone. I had a run in a while ago and have intention to engage with him again. IMO his is a good example of the sort of low-level, seemingly good-faith editing which can be highly disruptive when there are competency issues - however, it's often the hardest to deal with on WP mostly because it flies under most editor's radars. However, I've discovered this, which makes me question whether this is all well-meaning: [5]. Could well be trolling, but it's bizarre if so. Thanks, —Noswall59 (talk) 22:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC).[reply]

Noswall59 - Yes, I also noticed that, and was equally puzzled by it. For me, it doesn't have the feel of trolling, but I could well be wrong. Whatever the motivation, it is certainly problematic editing. They are obsessively creating masses of, largely non-notable, "place" articles, and sourcing them apparently at random. Except they aren't random, there is often some linked word, suggesting they are running an internet search and just slapping in whatever turns up without actually reading it. I've asked them - again - for an explanation. Whether I get one... KJP1 (talk) 06:48, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree with your diagnosis about the editing. I don't think the editing itself is done in bad faith -- I do think Dragon is trying to help; this is just a textbook case of WP:CIR to me. However, I think the revision to their user page which I linked above is, above all, especially concerning. In particular, Dragon's block log is clean, yet they said "I've been hiding for so long I was banned a few times. Still got through the radar for 4 years unnoticed". Are they admitting to evading a ban/block through sock-puppetry? A strange move if so. I'm glad that this is all getting some scrutiny now. Thanks for your diligence. All the best, -- Noswall59 (talk) 17:16, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It does raise concerns about ban evasion to me. If someone is doing a WP:CLEANSTART, that post would be the wrong way to go about it. If there are also WP:CIR concerns, this may be something that should go to WP:ANI or WP:SPI. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:15, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You both may well be right. I'd wanted to deal, at least with the source integrity issue, without going to ANI. My hope was that they'd agree to voluntarily put new articles through the AfC process. But despite my asking them not to, they have gone ahead and created another article (over a re-direct) which has exactly the same source integrity problems. Then there is the separate, but related, issue of Notability. And then there's their weird Talkpage message. Perhaps I should just take it all to ANI and let others have a look/make a call on next steps. KJP1 (talk) 08:32, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't looked into it, beyond the discussion here. If you do decide to follow-up, please feel free to ping me, and I'll see if I can help. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:14, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Appreciated. Not sure how it's going to pan out. They're currently angry and are lashing about. Hopefully, they'll calm down and think rationally. KJP1 (talk) 10:43, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Just to be clear ive not taken my bat and gone home. I went off to cool down. And there is no sockpuppetry involved. It was a joke. I role play. Maybe it was not an appropriate thing but i do. Ive had one user change name and that is it. Now i am calm. Please do tell me what to improve? And i will take @KJP1suggestion for AfC since I did so with Lawley Bank and will do with future articles or i could sandbox create it and ask for input? DragonofBatley (talk) 14:27, 12 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Tryptofish / SchroCat / Noswall59 - While the immediate problem may have diminished, as Dragon appears to have taken their bat home, I remain worried by the 427 articles they've created. And, of course, there is the possibility that they will restart their activities at a time of their choosing. I've been doing some spot checking and, almost, every one I look at has the same issues. Examples are, Croyland and Swanspool - 2 tags; Hatton Park - 1 tag; Belmont, Northwich - 8 tags, out of 9 cites in total! Do you think I should still take this to ANI, to guard against recurrence? And is there somewhere similar to Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations where editors can work through the articles already created to check for issues. As I know, that can be a rather dull task! But I fear it's very likely many of these articles will have Failed Verification issues. Any advice appreciated. KJP1 (talk) 15:17, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know of any similar investigation pathway, which is a shame, as its exactly what is needed here. I've dropped a few of his pages back to draft as they fail even the most basic tests, and it wouldn't surprise me if nearly all of them are problematic in one way or another. Also pinging PamD, whose name I have seen on several of these articles, tagging and pointing out the multiple errors. - SchroCat (talk) 15:54, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks. Yes, it does need something like CCI. And thanks for pinging PamD. I'd also be grateful for her advice on Notability of wards/suburbs. I've pushed a couple of these to AfD as the sourcing was so weak, and I don't think wards and suburbs are inherently notable, but Pam will likely know for sure. KJP1 (talk) 15:58, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

(talk page watcher) Eh what, just "a rather dull task"? Surely not! Martinevans123 (talk) 16:03, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry about that! I withdraw the remark. And place on record that it was the absolute highpoint of my time here, and my proudest achievement. KJP1 (talk) 16:08, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I was also thinking of a CCI-like failed verification project. Although CCI wouldn't be the answer... perhaps a dedicated one-off sub-page of WP:WPRE would be best.

However, I'm against taking this to ANI just yet. Due to the user's lack of responsiveness, I was previously in favour of such an action, but DragonofBatley seems to be listening and accepting feedback. I don't think it's appropriate to drag someone to ANI while also talking with them on their talk page. Give him a chance to fix up his mistakes: he is, as PamD says, an enthusiastic editor. I think at this point the best course of action is some careful guidance/mentoring, encouragement towards the AfC process, and some monitoring of edits, but not a loud ANI discussion or blocks or sanctions yet.

For these reasons, KJP1, I'm strongly urging you to at least wait to raise this at ANI. At the bare minimum, see how this discussion plays out and we can look at his subsequent writing efforts.

Thanks, Cremastra (u — c) 21:21, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Please, no, it's fine to go ahead tomorrow. I checked the linked discussion, and I don't see any reason to delay any further. I realize it can't be easy for KJP1 to keep getting conflicting input about this, but going back and forth any longer is just postponing the inevitable. Better to rip the bandage off, and take it where more people can look at the evidence and decide for themselves. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:27, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The bandage has been ripped off. I actually agreed to change but it is at least from your reply too little too late to fix things. By the way not instigating anything. I'm responding based on the response and terms used. DragonofBatley (talk) 23:09, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hallo, as I've been pinged to this discussion. Dragon is, I think, the only editor who has dragged me to ANI - see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1131#PamD and I'm feeling intentionally stalked. It's a bit of a wall of text. Near the end he states that he is "on the spectrum" (as a reason for objecting to his username being abbreviated ... though somewhere else, later, he said he was happy to be DoB or Dragon). He was previously editing as RailwayJG.

He has been an enthusiastic editor, and I do tend to look at his contributions list because he edits almost entirely about places in England, where I live, and I know from experience that I am likely to be able to contribute some helpful cleanup or other improvements to his article creations or major edits (fixing incomplete sentences, unlinking years or centuries, using the {{NHLE}} template, adding churches to their relevant dab pages, etc). He sometimes words things poorly, and has done some horribly careless edits over the years, such as the geographical muddle here where he left a place being "east of Portsmouth and west of Southampton".

He seems keen lately to create articles about subsections of towns, where these are perhaps electoral wards, sometimes just housing estates / business parks / vague locations, in cases where the reader would usually be better served by a single article covering the town (with incoming redirects, of course). (Notability of wards is a topic which gets raised at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography or elsewhere from time to time but with no real consensus. Personally I think wards are not notable as such, even if census info is available for them, although lists of wards, with incoming redirects/dab page entries, might be useful for some places.) An example of fragmentation is Market Place (Wragby), where I think the reader would be better served if it was merged into Wragby. There are articles for many probably-non-notable wards of Lincoln, Telford and other places.

I have a feeling that the eccentric sourcing is a fairly recent phenomenon, where any mention of a place in any text found in Google books is enough to justify adding it as a ref, even if the text "Skegness is a haven, village, ..." is then taken as a source for Haven Village. A sad thing is that sometimes there's actually a source there which does have some interesting information about the place, but it's ignored and the source is just used a evidence of the existence of the place. The article St Peter and St Paul Church, Caistor, as he left it, cited an 1840 book apparently to support the NHLE listing, while the book actually included a fascinating story, supported by other sources, about "The Gad Whip", which I then added.

He may or may not be making a final departure. He is obviously someone who has spent a lot of their time editing Wikipedia, mostly about British settlements and railways, and almost entirely editing in good faith (there was the one drunken attempt to add himself as a notable resident of Batley...) and would miss the activity hugely if he did stop completely. I think the care he gives his editing has improved since (OK, four years ago) he left an article in this state - notice the map, and the diocese in the infobox! (It was later deleted at AfD). It's just a pity that some of what he has produced has been substandardly-sourced, or carelessly-created, or of doubtful notability. PamD 18:58, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Pam - I appreciate the full response. And I think you are a more tolerant editor than I manage to be! Unless there are strong views to the contrary, I'm going to let this one lie for now. But looking through the 2023 case, I am struck at how similar the issues we're dealing with are to those of two years ago. I don't always agree with David Gerrard, but his response to DragonofBatley then does sum it up very well: "It looks very much like...a competence issue on your part. I can appreciate that you don't like having your repeated and persistent insertion of errors being called out, but the root cause is your repeated and persistent insertion of errors". I have a gut feeling we shall have to revisit this at some point. KJP1 (talk) 22:07, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

KJP1, I'm a bit late responding to your ping, but I've tried to get caught up with what people are saying here. Pam explained the name change, which looks to me like that answers the "other accounts" issue to my satisfaction. As for the competence issues, I'm inclined to come down on the side of "yes, this should go to ANI", but I'm also swamped with other things, and I don't edit in those areas, so it's not my problem if the problems continue. Reporting to CCI sounds like a needed action, but that's something where there are tremendous backlogs, so just don't expect anything fast. If you, Pam, and other editors are content to risk letting the problems continue a bit longer, that's OK with me, but it's not the decision I would likely make if they were editing in my topic areas. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:50, 12 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

KJP1: thanks for the tag. And thanks also Pam for an insightful overview of Dragon's editing history. Sorry for the length -- I did not intend this to be such a long reply but I think it's helpful nonetheless as I evidence a fair few points; I've collapsed my full response as I don't want a wall of text to disrupt your talk page. TLDR: I think there are three core issues here: (1) adherence to guidelines and policies relating to article creation and content; (2) civility; and (3) possible sock-puppetry. I think this should go to ANI, but I do not know what a good outcome looks like; at the very least, extra eyes on this and the 420+ creations is a good thing (and that statistic is pretty scary to me). Cheers, —Noswall59 (talk) 11:46, 12 January 2025 (UTC).[reply]

Noswall - thanks. The comments are exceptionally helpful, and no need at all to apologise for the length. To wrap this discussion up, there is a very clear consensus, here and on User:DragonofBatley's Talkpage, that this should go to ANI. As the one who raised it, I shall do that tomorrow. KJP1 (talk) 18:13, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No need to. I made the referall now. You and the others have all been pinged accordingly. If I cannot resolve it without ANI. I'll go there like I have now to resolve this. DragonofBatley (talk) 22:47, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Noswall59 comments at length

On (1), I have encountered Dragon's edits many times over the last few years as I also edit articles about UK places, particularly in Lincolnshire. IMO, there are core competency issues here -- even the way that Dragon responds on talk pages leads me to question his ability to write cogently and clearly, but the proof is in the pudding and we've seen numerous reported issues around verifiability, notability and quality be raised in the last few days. He also frequently cites policies but has been called out before for having clearly not read or understood them (e.g., [6]). 420+ creations is scary in light of all that. But also, just look at the sheer volume of content-related issues that have been brought to his talk page over the years, many by Pam in a diligent and astonishingly patient effort to educate him. This is a textbook case of WP:CIR, as harsh as I think that policy sounds; we are here to make an encyclopedia and that requires more than good intention. Unfortunately, competency issues often fly under the radar, especially when the editors concerned are engaged in good-faith editing on very niche topics, like minor suburban localities, disused railway stations and census wards. Most editors won't encounter these outputs, and when they do they may not notice the problems -- often seeing an article that appears well-cited and correct but so technical and niche that they can't judge it's erroneous, non-notable or unverified. I have certainly improved my own editing over the decade or so I've been here, and I've done so by listening, watching what others do well, and challenging myself to improve. I think we all want Dragon to improve, but I question whether he has the intention or the capacity given the help he's received to date, his attitude to criticism, and these persistent issues.

This leads on to civility. He can be friendly and helpful, but he can also be challenging to engage with, especially when challenged himself. He tends to lash out, accuse other editors of ganging up on him, and can flippantly say things (like "joke" about evading bans when under heavy scrutiny) which seem to be in very poor judgement and possibly constitute trolling. He can go on lengthy tirades to these ends. He has been called out for posting content on his userpage which incites violence [7], and has also included expletive content there [8]. My own brief run in with him (at 1, 2) over some edits to Skegness left a pretty sour taste in my mouth and I made a conscious choice to avoid him again. That was a long time ago, but the responses we've seen of late suggest that not much has changed. Pam points out that Dragon alleges he has an autistic spectrum disorder, so I am mindful of this; but, in my view, that cannot be justification for permitting incivility and disruption. We are a volunteer organisation and we need people to work with each other and edit constructively; for legitimate reasons not everyone can do that and that's a shame.

Finally, (3). I've outlined my concerns about sockpuppetry above. I don't think the RailwayJG alias is enough to make me feel comfortable that he was referring to that account name change in his comments, because I can't see anything in RailwayJG's block log either -- he's referred several times to having been banned, but recently claimed that this was a joke or sarcasm. I cannot fathom why someone would out themselves so brazenly if true, but I also cannot fathom why someone would "joke" about this when under so much heat. Something's not right. Most of us edit anonymously so we have to trust that we're doing so in good faith otherwise the system breaks down. I'm struggling to trust here. In sum, I think this does need to go to ANI. Dragon's retirement could be permanent, but in my experience these things seldom are - and if this behaviour resumes in a few months when the heat's off, the problem could go unaddressed again. It's hard to see what a good outcome looks like here -- an admonishment, a topic ban from new creations, a full block? I like KJP1's suggestion of mandatory AFC but he's shown unwillingness to engage so something more formal may be needed. None of this deals with potential pre-existing problems in those 400+ articles; more eyes may at least help work through the backlog.

January music

Thank you for improving the Welsh composer, now fit for article space! - Liebster Immanuel, Herzog der Frommen, BWV 123, my story today 300 years after the first performance, is up for GAN. Dada Masilo will be my story tomorrow. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:14, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My story today is about a composer who influenced music history also by writing.--Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:04, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

... and today, pictured on the Main page, Tosca, in memory of her first appearance on stage OTD in 1900, and of principal author Brian Boulton. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:51, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Today I have a composer (trumpeter, conductor) on the main page who worked closely with another who became GA yesterday, - small world! To celebrate: mostly flowers pics from vacation ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:17, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you today for Castell Coch, introduced (in 2015) as "a quaint Gothic Revival castle to the north of Cardiff in south Wales, which was built by William Burges for John Crichton-Stuart, 3rd Marquess of Bute in the 1870s. A castle had existed on the site in medieval times but later fell into ruin. The interior design of the castle has been cited as one of the shining examples of the High Victorian Gothic, though Bute rarely used the place as a residence. For a period a vineyard was cultivated at the castle, unusual in Britain. Today it is run by the Welsh heritage agency Cadw."! - As it happened, my story is also about a building, because its architect would have been 105 today. (When the DYK appeared, he was still alive.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:36, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Notice of Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents discussion

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Me (DragonofBatley). Thank you. Tarlby ^{(t) (c)} 22:58, 13 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Listed buildings images

I've spent quite a while adding images and Commons categories to the lists. Something that would be nice is if we were able to get an image of every Grade I listed building but I don't think that's that much of a practical project given that I think there are several hundred Grade I listed buildings with no images scattered across the country. Anyway thankyou for you're work with listed buildings and cleaning up DragonofBatley's work. I might see if I can help out there though something I have pointed out to them is WP:SUBCAT but they have still been doing it where they but a settlement article in both a parish category and the district category the parish is in. Crouch, Swale (talk) 23:25, 18 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A photo of every Grade I, and an article/sub-article, would indeed be an achievement. We're managed the second, for Wales, but it's still a huge challenge for the rest of the UK. Looking at Grade I listed buildings in Essex, the first that comes up after Westminster, I think we've as many that don't have articles as do, and there are 23 missing images. But we all plough on! And your help on the DoB reviewing would be much appreciated. All the best. KJP1 (talk) 07:00, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's certainly achievable - I think as our impossible project advances - accessibility to sites becomes an issue. No Swan So Fine (talk) 08:59, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I visited Moulsoe over the weekend and added images of Burges's Carrington graves screen and the church to his list. No Swan So Fine (talk) 12:46, 2 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

DragonofBatley AfDs

Hi KJP1. Hope may comment at the AN/I didn't come across as criticism of you putting forward too many AfDs. No, the number is OK so far. What I'm saying is, if there's a deluge it becomes harder for interested editors to devote adequate time to assess. It may be an idea to keep a schedule of the AfDs and their outcomes. Rupples (talk) 03:15, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Rupples - Not at all. I'm fully aware that I'm less familiar with WP:GEOLAND etc. as they apply to very small areas, than you, Pam or Crouch Swale, among others. It's not that I'm opposed to such articles, I recently did a couple just on streets, e.g. Barton Street and Cowley Street, Westminster, it just that I find some of the ones we're looking at to be so weakly sourced that there seems to be almost no content to retain or to merge. And I appreciate we no more want to overwhelm AfD, than we did AfC. I shall take it slowly, and check in with you/Cremastra/Pam etc. before AfD'ing where they seem to be edge cases. And a record is a very good idea. I'll add on to the sandbox. All the best. KJP1 (talk) 06:53, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Brilliant - that was quick! It's useful to see whether nominations are generally on the right track, as evidenced by a lack of "keep" outcomes - I'm confident this will be the case. Rupples (talk) 09:49, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder whether a lot of the non-notable wards and "suburbs" could be WP:BOLDly redirected to their town/parish, after ensuring that the relevant target article has a list of wards for election to its council, or a mention of housing estates/business parks/whatever that include the dubious topic? It might reduce the load at AfD. If challenged, the move to a redirect could easily be reverted and the article then taken to AfD. PamD 10:45, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's a grand idea, and perhaps we do need to be a bit bolder. But I don't want to get too far in until we can involve DragonofBatley. We know that we could tidy them up ourselves, but if we are to have another go at getting them to improve their own editing, we have to get them doing some of the reviewing, with support. As a related aside, where did they get the idea that wards/tiny bits of towns were generally notable? What's the driver for all these poorly-sourced stubs? KJP1 (talk) 11:10, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Is it just the "look at this long list of articles I've created" urge? There was an earlier phase of "built up areas", and he has also created articles on "X city centre" (or Market Place (Wragby)), which unnecessarily split the content about the place. He recently seems to have taken up categorisation, creating a category for every parish even when there's only the parish, the list of listed buildings, and perhaps one church or person at most, and making questionable, hierarchy-breaking, creations like Category:Civil parishes in Telford and Wrekin which I've taken to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2025 January 19#Category:Civil parishes in Telford and Wrekin. PamD 11:21, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Pam, for ease, I've copied the suggestion to here, User:KJP1/sandbox10-DoB, where we're keeping a centralised record of the clean up activity. KJP1 (talk) 11:57, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I see that DoB has returned to editing, and I see your comment on his talk page about a new edit that violates his editing restriction. I haven't checked that edit myself, but if he is violating the restrictions, that needs to be reported to ANI. We are past the point where telling him what is or is not restricted makes sense anymore. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:12, 15 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Speech Room, Harrow School

A Burges design, or one piggy backed on by others? The guides have it down as being one of Billy's, but two notables ended up finishing it off. Sir Charles Nicholson, someone who I know quite well (and Laurence Olivier's uncle, no less), came along 50 years later and "faithfully realized" Billy's design by completing the north tower, according to the Guides. Herbert Baker, later still, came along to top off the south tower. One does wonder just how much of Billy's original designs exist! Cassianto^Talk 15:41, 6 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Cassianto - Bloody cheek. I have, in a box somewhere as all of my pictures still are, an illustration from The Builder of around 1870, showing it as Billy B left it. The interior is much as he designed it but you're right about the exterior. To my considerable regret, I never found my way to Harrow to see it. And likely now never will. But I don't rue that as much as never having made it to Ceoil's neck of the woods! Hope you are keeping well. KJP1 (talk) 06:50, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I would imagine the interior remains pretty much intact - but as DBaK says below, it would take a brave fellow to find out, without getting his collar felt. On another note, I found out today that Billy submitted a design for the Royal Courts of Justice in the 1870s. I mean, it's a pretty bloody impressive building as it is - perhaps the highest of all high Victorian buildings, so one can only imagine what it would've been like under Billy's pen. Cassianto^Talk 20:30, 11 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If either of ye ever make it to Cork, I can guarantee a few (3-4) pints in Sin é, which serves the best Guinness in the known world. Great to see you around Cassianto. Ceoil (talk) 07:16, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Lovely to see you here, too, Ceoil. I know you like your tombs, as do I, so thought I'd share these with you, which I had listed with Historic England, last year: [9], [10], and [11]. I spend most of my online time there now submitting applications for interesting things to be listed. Please give my best to Liz. Cassianto^Talk 20:44, 11 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I was very excited to see this. We're currently doing the Capital Ring (health permitting) and the very next section we are due to do is section 9, Greenford to South Kenton, which not only passes through Harrow School but mentions the Speech Room in the walk notes! ... while on your left lies the impressive Gothic-style Speech Room ... I shall look forward even more to this now I've seen mention of it in the school's and Burges's articles! Cheers DBaK (talk) 12:30, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

DBaK - exciting indeed! I shall expect some excellent shots to be uploaded to Commons, ideally with some interior images. Though I’ve no idea how accesible it is. Something tells me that, in these more challenging times, you will not be able to just saunter onto school premises from the street. Though someone ought to tell them that they have a Grade II* building on their hands, rather than a mere Grade II, [12]. Perhaps if you offered to sponsor a chair? KJP1 (talk) 18:54, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

p.s. In exchange for some images, I shall do an article. It warrants one. KJP1 (talk) 18:55, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'll try for photos if I can without being arrested! DBaK (talk) 21:21, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The public right of way appears to go past it but there is no mention of access to buildings, which might be a step too far! DBaK (talk) 21:21, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Even some decent exterior shots would be good. We have a grand total of six on Commons, one good exterior image, and one very nice panorama of the interior. Other than that, they are blurry, oblique, or old b&w’s. KJP1 (talk) 22:06, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Noted, thanks. DBaK (talk) 10:53, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

built-up areas

It didn't click for me until you mentioned it in yesterday's AFD discussions that the machine-generated built-up areas were given to us by the same person who gave us the contrived "suburbs" (which I held off analysing on your cleanup page because I thought that it might become overwhelming and I wanted to give everyone a chance to catch up). I hadn't been paying attention to the article creator, just the geography.

I just finished making a good stub for Wombridge, by the way, just to show what can be written. I haven't even touched the VCH as a source, there.

Uncle G (talk) 06:14, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Uncle G - Your notes are exceptionally helpful, thanks. Do please continue them. We just need to think through how to turn them into ACTIONs. As we saw at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Westcroft, Staffordshire, AfD can be a bit variable. Thanks again. KJP1 (talk) 07:04, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- And the earlier deleted BUAs were his creation too, I think, under hus previous name of RailwayJG (approx: on phone, too hard to check). PamD 06:42, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  - You're right. RailwayJG's early efforts. KJP1 (talk) 06:51, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    - p.s. But they are like knotweed, I keep finding more! Same with places - you deal with one stub on a minor "suburb", and then find another stub within a stub on an even more localised bit of the one you've dealt with. KJP1 (talk) 07:01, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
      - And of course there are plenty of cases where DoB didn't create the article from zero, but over-wrote an existing redirect, so the unnecessary article on the non-place doesn't show up in lists of his creations - those may be some of the knotweed shoots. PamD 11:38, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
        I’m not even sure I want to go there! I actually found one of those this morning. I don’t know of any easy way to identify them. Does anyone have any idea? KJP1 (talk) 11:55, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
        I feel bad seeing editors putting in so much effort into cleaning up. We don't know whether or not Dragon's "retirement" will stick, but if he doesn't show signs of wiki-life in a reasonable amount of time, I would hate to see y'all (that's an Americanism ) doing his cleanup work for him. Seems to me that the only way to "identify them" is to go through his edit history and check the page histories. But I'd encourage liberal and unapologetic use of WP:PROD, because there just won't be that many other editors watching them, and it's probably not worth more effort than that. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:54, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
        In these modern times of singular "you", one does need a distinct plural form again. ☺ Do not forget that you can filter the edit history for mw-removed-redirect tags. Uncle G (talk) 15:38, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
        I'm an American, and I'm revolting. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:46, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- I didn't get the chance to re-read Westcroft, Staffordshire (AfD discussion), and still haven't, what with Kitt, Indiana (AfD discussion), Jay City, Indiana (AfD discussion), Patrocles (half-brother of Socrates) (AfD discussion) and a lot of other stuff — not the least of which is someone who has clogged up Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Geography with a whole load of U.K. stuff where it's usually Mangoe going through the GNIS mess and places in India and Iran.
  We still need to encourage Drmies to clear the backlog of User talk:Drmies#Onions!, too. ☺
  Uncle G (talk) 07:33, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Belatedly realising this slew of AfDs on British geo topics is to do with Dragon. I'd suggest the least-effort approach is to redirect these without even bothering with prod. I'll try not to contest any prods I trip over if I see Dragon is the creator, though the one I nearly contested recently (Gamble Hill) turns out to be one of Crouch, Swale's. Espresso Addict (talk) 10:19, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- I try not to get into who the article creator is unless it is large scale and inescapable, like the mass copyright cleanups or the GNIS mess. Uncle G (talk) 15:38, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  - 127 years late, I report bad news for Wombridge. ☺ Uncle G (talk) 15:38, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Espresso Addict - first, apologies for the delay in responding. Second, thanks very much for the suggestions. Speaking frankly, I do find AfD a little adversarial, and there seems to be a default to attempt to "save" articles, particularly place-articles, when the articles themselves are very, very poor. But I need to get better acquainted with GEOLAND etc. Lastly, I see we share an interest in some lesser known Manchester architects. I love the Manchester Reform Club which I used to see almost daily. The one that has always intrigued me is Thomas Hartas. He appears completely unknown/unrecorded. Unless you're aware of something I'm not? KJP1 (talk) 18:15, 15 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As a card-carrying inclusionist, I loathe AfD and rarely have the energy to participate there, but I can see that it is also an adversarial place for cleaning up low-quality articles where the notability might conceivably be there but no-one has enough energy to improve the article. I am in awe of all the work you and others are doing to clear up this situation. I'm no expert on Manchester architects and actually hadn't even heard of Salomons before yesterday, to my shame; I started an article a while back on Wood's partner, J. Henry Sellers, and I've been intermittently mooching around sources for Wood/Sellers and tripping over sources on other Manchester figures. The book I was using also has long articles on Richard Lane, Emanuel Vincent Harris and John Swarbrick (founder of the Ancient Monuments Society) but nothing on Hartas, sadly. PQ finds article in Independent which just says "Almost nothing is known about Thomas Hartas: it is thought that he was not local and that the law library was the only building of any note that he designed" which isn't very helpful! I suspect if Hartwell et al. couldn't find anything, we mere mortals are doomed to fail... Gorgeous building though! It does seem extremely unlikely that it sprang out of nowhere, but I suppose he must have 'ghosted' uncredited for some practice or other, as Sellers did until he linked up with Wood. Cheers, Espresso Addict (talk) 21:15, 15 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It is indeed a gorgeous building, inside and out, and no architect creates that from scratch. He must have done earlier work - but what? And why nothing after? All very frustrating. KJP1 (talk) 21:18, 15 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Is this him? Not sure it's an RS though. —Noswall59 (talk) 13:48, 17 February 2025 (UTC).[reply]
Noswall59 - Bullseye! Indeed it is and that's more than I, or indeed Claire Hartwell, was ever able to find about him. So, he died young'ish, - at Barmouth, was he there for his health? - and his early works were domestic villas in the NW and Midlands. I wonder how he landed the Law Library commission? Fascinating stuff. I shall use that source for the Law Libary article unless, as its finder, you want to do the honours.
While I have you, can we catch up on the DoB reviewing, principally the Lincolnshire entries where you have made detailed notes. I'm not quite sure how you want to turn these notes into actions, i.e. executing the Merge/Redirect/AfD or whatever your suggested action was? If you have it in hand, and plan to action them at some future stage, that's absolutely fine. Equally, if you'd like a hand doing so, just let me know.

I think we are making good progress, although it was regrettable that we weren't able to bring DragonofBatley with us. When we're done, you, I, PamD, Rupples, UncleG and Cremastra should celebrate with a drink! I think it would have to be virtual, unfortunately, as I think we are quite geographically disparate. Or we may just have to settle for a barnstar. All the best. KJP1 (talk) 14:57, 17 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
KJP1 - re Hartas, I'm glad that's actually him in the source and not a case of "look at what you could have won"! Please go ahead and add to the article. I'd never heard of him, but I saw your comment and was intrigued by the unusual surname, did some digging and found that webpage.

I've been pretty busy this last week so have only just been catching up with the news that DoB is now indef blocked. I'm not sure it's a surprise, but a shame it had to end that way. I am happy to do the merging/redirecting of Lincolnshire articles from the table as identified, though I'm not going to "claim" them -- anyone's welcome to join in (I don't want to hold up efforts). I will probably be editing sporadically over the coming weeks, so I'll start with the low-hanging fruit and then, as and when I have time, will attempt to improve those I think are worth keeping. Regarding redirecting, can this be done BOLDly or does it require AfD/PROD in each instance? —Noswall59 (talk) 11:15, 18 February 2025 (UTC).[reply]
Noswall59 - That's terrific, thanks very much indeed. And no rush, of course. I shall pick up some of them, as I do my daily trawl up and down the list. I think our collective view is that "Merge and Redirect" tends to be working out best - and we've been doing it pretty boldly! It may sometimes be necessary to create a suitable home in the "Merge To" page. As an example, User:PamD did this with Great Wyrley#Places of worship, and dropped in a bunch of, not-very notable, churches. Pam or User:Rupples, can't now remember who, found List of electoral wards in Lincolnshire and they exist for many/most counties, which proved to be a great landing point for lots of the non-notable ward articles. Just make sure you're redirecting to the right level of governance; Rupples corrected a batch I misdirected in this way! I think we've only had two reversals, and one of those was where we changed our collective mind. AfD tends to get there eventually, and most of them have ended up with the desired outcomes, but it's a bit of a drain/strain. I started to be a bit more liberal with PROD, but a number of these have been challenged. So, Merge is the favourite, but you will often find there isn't a lot actually worth moving over. All the very best. KJP1 (talk) 13:34, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Noswall59 I skimmed the list a few days ago and think there were at least a couple of listed churches that might be worth saving, but I haven't checked whether the existing article is plausible or not. Espresso Addict (talk) 18:55, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Martin

Let me just suggest that you not offer him the actual wording to use. (You've been doing that a bit.) Just point him in the right direction, but make him come up with the exact wording. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:27, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Noted, maestro! KJP1 (talk) 20:37, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If only I could carry a tune... --Tryptofish (talk) 20:39, 23 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"You hum it son, and I'll play it." Martinevans123 (talk) 12:58, 24 February 2025 (UTC) [reply]

Play it on a hum-drum. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:31, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Congratulations and thanks

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		Thank you for your vast amount of work in coordinating the mass cleanup of articles created by an editor with a confused idea of "notability", documented here. PamD 12:47, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

PamD - that’s very kind of you. But it was very much a team effort, of the kind I like best on here. It was unfortunate that it was necessary but, as it was, we did a good job in sorting it out. All the very best. KJP1 (talk) 15:07, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A well deserved Barnstar, KJP1. To get through that number of articles in less than half the three months I estimated is phenomenal. It's been achieved because of your organisation, dedication and perseverance. Bravo! Rupples (talk) 15:29, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely: well-deserved! Truly admirable, thanks. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:33, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I support the barnstar! I came to thank you for pointing out that Wetman died: sad news, but delivered well. I tried to remove clutter from his talk page. Colin was such a great editor and dear person! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:16, 11 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

All Souls Church, Hastings

Good to hear from you on the above! I've updated the article now. You make an interesting point about Anglican churches in Manchester. Wearing another of my many hats, I have discovered recently that a number of fine redundant Anglican churches in Manchester, plus several of our other major cities, have been taken on by various rapidly growing Pentecostal churches of African origin – with conspicuous success, it must be said, as they are now filled and thriving again, often several times a week, and buildings at risk of dilapidation or demolition have been rejuvenated. My research into some of these groups still awaits publication, but it suggests the process is gradually filtering down to smaller towns and urban areas, as congregations of such churches become established outside the big cities. Perhaps All Souls can be rescued in this way; precedent has been set elsewhere in town. I will be in Hastings later this spring, so I'll see if I can get some photos of the current situation. Cheers, Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 22:14, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hassocks5489 - Many thanks for updating this. And yes, some more recent images would be good. I take your point on alternative congregations; one of Burges’, St Michael and All Angels Church, Lowfield Heath, has seen exactly this development, despite now being marooned in the middle of Gatwick Airport. All the best. KJP1 (talk) 07:01, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

St Elli's Church, Llanelly

I apologize for having upset you. I'll try to avoid making this mistake in future. John Desmond (talk) 09:51, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

New paragraph for the John Morgan article?

Hello @KJP1,

I recently thought that the following passage in the "Ancestry and Early Life" section of the John Morgan, 6th Baron Tredegar, article could be moved somehow into the "Inheritance" section:

"In 1949, Morgan became president of the Newport Athletic Club, and the Bedwellty Agricultural Society. In 1950, he was promoted as an Officer of The Order of St John, having already been Assistant Almoner for the Priory of Wales for sometime, and elected as an honorary member of the Newport Chamber of Trade."

Having reviewed it, I don't think it really classes as Morgan's early life, and would be more valuable in the "Inheritance" section to explain his role within Monmouthshire, following his succession to the Morgan estates. Here is my proposed revision, with a small passage from the current article, to contextualise various parts in the new paragraph (new paragraph in italics):

"As a Catholic convert, Morgan made a pilgrimage to Lourdes for guidance as for what to do with his fortune and family estates. At the time, Morgan told the Western Mail that he was prepared to "live at Tredegar Park on a very modest scale in view of the prevailing conditions" adding "although my father is crippled with osteo-arthritis, it is my earnest wish that he may be enabled to share with me the family home where he spent so many happy years of his early youth."

Ultimately, fragile health prevented Morgan’s father from joining him at Tredegar House, and while Morgan himself did not make it his permanent residence, he did occasionally stay there for days at a time. As the sole occupier of Tredegar House, and representative of the Morgan family, John Morgan became a regent-like figure, assuming the various social roles that his father would have otherwise held as Lord Tredegar, had he been in better health. Among many other organisations, in 1949 Morgan became President of the Bedwellty Agricultural Society, becoming heavily involved in the society’s meetings and shows. In 1950, Morgan was appointed an Officer of the Order of St. John, having already liaised for many months with the Priory of Wales as Assistant Almoner. Reporting on an event which Morgan had chaired in the same year, the South Wales Argus commented “the more we see of [Morgan], the more we like him”

I thought you might like to review this new section before I publish it, out of your own interest, for the benefit of the article, and as a second opinion. Note: I do have the relevant citations for any new information, but have kept them out for the purpose of reviewing and editing this new section.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts.

Mac Edmunds (talk) 12:11, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Mac Edmunds - Hi Mac and thanks for dropping by. Generally, I think the proposed para. will meet the need very well. My only quibble might be whether “regent-like figure” overstates the case. Did any RS so describe him? I’d go for something like “major local figure/worthy”, or some such. You continue to do a great job on expanding the article. All the best. KJP1 (talk) 16:37, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I do agree about the regency reference. I tried to look for a synonym, but could really find one which fitted the bill. Your suggestions do help explain his significance, but I'm trying to convey the point that he was almost standing in for his father as head of the family, and fulfilling the roles that his father was incapable of, due to ill-health.

I also was thinking about adding a footnote at the end of the paragraph, noting his other presidencies/social roles, to explain the scope of his involvement. Something along these lines (again... citations left out for the purpose of reviewing the content):

"John Morgan also served as President of the following organisations:

Mynyddislwyn Agricultural Society
Monmouthshire Arts and Crafts Society
Bedwellty Conservative Association
Henllys Sheep Dog Society
Newport Athletic Club

In addition, he was Vice-President of the St. Mellon's Young Farmers' Club, an honorary member of the Newport and Monmouthshire Chamber of Commerce, and Co-Master of the Tredegar Farmers’ Hunt Foxhounds."

And, thank you for your comments about my expansion of the article... it's coming along nicely, and now a GA!

Mac Edmunds (talk) 17:19, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In appreciation

		The Good Article Rescue Barnstar
		This is presented to you by the GAR process in recognition of your sterling work in helping Ashton Court retain its Good Article status. Please feel free to display the GA icon on your userpage. Keep up the good work! ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:09, 15 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

PaulaPickles2025

Possibly old hobbyist since at least 2017, see User_talk:Rsjaffe#Old_Shake-sock,_I_think. FYI-ping to @Jauerback. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:00, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, this is quite a bit more extensive than I realized. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 14:41, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Jauerback and we go again:[13] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:39, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I was a bit late to the party, but thanks for letting me know, anyway. I've addded quite a few pages to my watchlist and I will do my best to nab these when I'm around and see them. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 14:20, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for doing the SPI thing. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:29, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång what is it about Shakespeare that attracts the fruitcases? KJP1 (talk) 17:12, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

People like conspiracy theories? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 04:34, 1 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

They must be a troll. Surely no one's so dumb as to think that, if only they can make their Wikipedia changes stick, a centuries-long consensus will be overturned? KJP1 (talk) KJP1 (talk) 16:00, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In their whatever, the Looneys have been at it for a century themselves. But troll/fueled by the righteousness of their cause, absolutely. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:25, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Tredegar House edit

Although it was vandalism, I was quite amused by the inventiveness of the Tredegar House edit you reversed today... nephew Nigel, the £46M NT deal, and the Duchy of Tredegar! Whatever next?... :-) Mac Edmunds (talk) 20:58, 1 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Mac Edmunds - I agree, and there was actually a snippet that could almost have been retained:

"Later, extravagance, eccentricities, and weighty death duties depleted the family's financial assets over the next two generations. John Morgan, 6th Baron Tredegar died childless in 1962 aged 54. His death signalled the end of the Morgans of Tredegar."

I can't really argue with any of that. As to the "Duchy of Tredegar" , it reminds me of a question I've often puzzled on - why was James Scott made Duke of Monmouth? An obscure border town that's never amounted to much. KJP1 (talk) 21:08, 1 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Good point with the unintended chronology. As for the dukedom, I can't really comment as it's something that I have looked into; you're clearly quite the Monmouthshire–pedian. Whilst I'm here... At some point in the future I'm thinking of expanding the section on the extravagances, decline and sale surrounding and of Tredegar House. There are some bits and pieces that I think might be of value to the page, which I've picked up when researching John, but are not necessarily specific enough to him to expand on his page. But, on the Tredegar House page, they would be a nice addition (James Lees-Milne's assessment of the house, the potential National Trust deal, etc.). Mac Edmunds (talk) 21:25, 1 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good. Sometime, I must get around to doing an Architecture section for Tredegar. The grandest house in Wales warrants it. KJP1 (talk) 05:09, 2 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Saint

Saw this today. RIP. Cassianto^Talk 09:13, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Cassianto - very sad. Him, Mordaunt Crook, Girouard and John Newman, all dead. We're getting old. KJP1 (talk) 09:16, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Painshill

Hi @KJP1: Just to let you know that I have submitted Painshill at WP:GAN. If you are still willing and able to review it, that would be great, but no worries if not. Thanks and best wishes, Mertbiol (talk) 21:13, 7 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @KJP1: Just to let you know that Chiswick Chap has very kindly picked up Painshill for review at GAN. It would be great to have your comments as well if you are able to chip in. Best wishes, Mertbiol (talk) 16:33, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

He beat me to it! But you have yourself a very good reviewer. I shall certainly take a look. KJP1 (talk) 16:54, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @KJP1: Would you mind also giving some input on using the sfn template at Talk:Painshill#Referencing style please? I would be happier to have another voice before making a change. (I hope this is not a breach of WP:CANVASS!) Thanks Mertbiol (talk) 17:20, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Malvern College

Hi, just to let you know that Bgsu98 has kindly picked up the GA review for Malvern College. If you are able to help address any issues it would be much appreciated. Cheers. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:21, 19 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Good news. I’ve “watched” the page and will look out for queries/issues that may be flagged up. KJP1 (talk) 08:25, 19 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. The Malvern College review was picked up 4 days ago but there does not seem to be any movement yet. It's been a while since I did a GA, is there something I'm missing? Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:27, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No, it’s slightly odd. I would have expected to see some comments by now. Given that Wikipedia:GAN/I suggests a review should take about 7 days, I think a gentle reminder with a ping at the review page would be appropriate. KJP1 (talk) 14:34, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We have comments! And they look eminently actionable. Let me know how you want to handle them as we don’t want to end up edit-conflicting. From my memory, you’re about eight hours ahead of me, so are probably fast asleep now. We could work round the time zones, but I’ll let you see this first and decide on an approach. All the best. KJP1 (talk) 16:31, 23 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. and good morning. I am 6 hrs ahead of the UK. I'll have a quick look at it after breakfast and start taking some of the low-hanging fruit today. I'll mark what I'm doing with {{doing}} and {{done}} templates to avoid edit conflicts. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:12, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've done most of what I can now and I have a busy week ahead of me tomorrow, Monday (well today actually, it's already 00:43 here). It's not our fault that we are running out of time. Perhaps an extension would be in order. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:44, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, Malvern College claims to have actually produced four Nobel laureats (one went to the Downs, but that was before the Downs was officially taken over by the college). Maybe we should leave it as it is for now. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:48, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree on leaving the laureates. And I wouldn’t worry about the time. It’s the reviewer’s call and I’m sure they can see we are responding very promptly to all comments. I’m around the coming week so will be able to pick anything up as time is tight for you. As a start, I’ll address their concerns on the lead tomorrow. I see that we mention “military figures” in the lead, but I didn’t include any in the Alumni body. So I will lob in a smattering of generals/admirals/air aces. There are plenty to choose from! KJP1 (talk) 19:05, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

P.s. Is David Younger the college’s only VC? KJP1 (talk) 19:33, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

p.p.s. No red line round the crest for me. Must be your device. KJP1 (talk) 20:08, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Turns out it's a user script I've been using for years that highlights possible errors with Wikilinks (dabs/redirects etc). It's extremely useful for NPPers and/or FA/GA reviewers. This feature must have been added recently when I was on Wikileave. Only people with the script installed can see it. It's supposed to flag any un-free images, but it still flags the ones that have a fair use rationale. See: User:Anomie/linkclassifier. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:48, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

342 edits since 'picking up' the review and only 16 edits to it in 7 days. I don't think 'Calm down' reflects the friendly collaboration I've been used to these past 19 years, nor does the misplaced humour about our British culture. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:39, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It also rather overlooks the four days after the review was opened when not a single comment was made. Ah well. We’ll plough on. As and when there’s anything to respond to. KJP1 (talk) 08:01, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Lunch break over. RL calls. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:05, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe they should finish one review before picking up another. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:59, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Kudpung - I think you emailed me many moons ago, but I can’t find it. If you still use mail via this site, could you drop me a line. KJP1 (talk) 15:34, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 16:13, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I found time to address some of the reviewer's latest batch. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:23, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent. I’ll pick up anything left. KJP1 (talk) 05:39, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I just discovered by accident that they outsource sports to the independent socs.tech websites system which specialises in inter-school fixtures and results for elite schools. I am not unravelling that to find any wins among the results just to satisfy a GA reviewer. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:36, 27 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

While consistency in citation style is not required for GA, on a related note, I find MOS:ITALICWEBSITE rather confusing if not ambiguous. Could you help me understand this, with particular focus on its 'Note:b'? The reviewer may be right so I don't want to challenge anything - yet. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:32, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I’m very far from a MoS specialist, and having read the guidance twice I also find it unclear. But I think on this one I agree with the reviewer. The Docklands Settlement is a charity, not a publication, and we don’t italicise The National Trust or Barnardos etc. So I would probably go for unitalicised. On a linked point, I think the order of those two cites (124/125) should be flipped, so they match the order of the content they support. Nearly there, I hope. KJP1 (talk) 11:48, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'll make those changes. Probably tomorrow. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:26, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My attempt at feedback was not completely successful but I'm glad Malvern College is now back at GA! KJP1 (talk) 23:34, 31 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I woke up this morning to the relief that our collaborative effort was successful, but to a feeling of disturbed surprise that not only were your comments on the reviewer's attitude throughout the process perfectly valid, but his final comment to you and edit summary, and hiding the thread from view lean towards what I perceive to be a pattern worthy of escalation. Most users would find themselves at ANI for less.

Thank you again for your work on the article. It was a joint effort. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:43, 1 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Kudpung as said before, by you, those who like doling criticism out, are often among the worst at taking it! His reaction didn't surprise me, beyond its extremity. And his ignorance of the GA process, which completely permits the engagement of editors other than the nominator. Anyway, I shall file it away for future use! All the best. KJP1 (talk) 14:04, 1 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"Bye Felicia"? Yeah, pretty appalling. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:04, 1 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Tryptofish. Yes, you and I have something in common: the knowledge of how disingenuous some some editors can really be who have a high opinion of themselves - odd how some people see themselves as the victims. And that's why I don't nominate or participate in FA. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:37, 1 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Penarth Fawr

Hello! I hope you're well. I've had a half-finished re-write of Penarth Fawr sitting in my sandbox for months, and I've finally got around to publishing it. As you're the other major contributor to the article I was wondering if you could find the time to cast your eye over the changes – I've reached the point where I can no longer see the wood for the trees, so any help would be appreciated. Diolch, A.D.Hope (talk) 17:55, 31 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I shall certainly take a look. KJP1 (talk) 23:41, 31 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I appreciate it. There's no rush, and it doesn't need to be as thorough as a GA nom or anything. A.D.Hope (talk) 15:14, 1 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination for WikiProject Military history coordinators is now open!

Nominations for the upcoming Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history coordinator election have opened. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next coordination year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting will commence on 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the current coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:03, 1 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Malvern College

I just wanted to apologize for my overreaction last night. I'm sorry you were dissatisfied with how the GA for Malvern College went. I actually enjoyed doing this review; it seems like a great school. I assume you are an alumnus; hence your vested interest in maintaining the quality of the article. I did want to clarify:

I picked up this GA as part of a push to clear out all pending GA nominations in the Education subcategory. When I picked up this GA on August 19, there were six pending GAs in the Education subcategory. When I closed out this GA yesterday, all six were still pending, which means that Malvern College was processed the fastest. The seven-day window is an average, not a guarantee. This GA review I did took one day. (It, by the way, had part of a prior effort to clear out all pending GAs in the Recreation subcategory; this effort was followed by Education.)

Anyway, that's all I wanted to say. I wish you and User:Kudpung the best of luck in your future Wikipedia endeavours. (I spelled that last word British for you. 😃) Bgsu98 (Talk) 00:01, 2 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Bgsu98, neither of us are alumni of the school. We both have an interest in articles about education, architecture, and settlements in our country. Neither of us are dissatisfied with the quality of your the review per se - it passed - but our concerns were with the constant offhand manner and lack of civility with which you conducted it. KJP1 and I have both been on Wikipedia for near 20 years, maybe you should check out user pages more often. Thank you for the apology; I wish you the best of luck in your future Wikipedia endeavours and hope that your reviewing style is not a pattern that will someday lead to sanctions. .Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:31, 2 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Bgsu98 - apology appreciated and accepted. Regards. KJP1 (talk) 12:53, 2 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Plas Machen

Was just flicking through the Plas Machen page and noticed that the architectural style is listed as 'Elizabethan'. Was wondering what your thoughts were on this. Are there any possible citations to back this up, perhaps by John Newman, or Archdeacon Coxe, as the latter is already cited on the page? I bring this up because to my albeit limited architectural eye, it does not look Elizabethan at all. The cobbled-together, rubble look seems much more early Tudor. On a side-note, I just noticed how close both Plas Machen and Machen House are to the main road from Bassaleg to Caerphilly; I will have to drop by and see what I can from the pavement, or farm track, in PM's case. Mac Edmunds (talk) 22:16, 5 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I’ll have a look on the Elizabethan v Early Tudor in my sources, although I think we may be splitting unnecessary hairs. On the photographs, get to it! I spent three years photographing various Monmouthshire barns, and it was great fun. KJP1 (talk) 22:28, 5 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That’s fine, as long as you agree with the Elizabethan style being correct. I have recently noticed that lots of Monmouthshire landmarks have your username attached to their infobox pictures — top work! Mac Edmunds (talk) 10:58, 6 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I spent three years over various weekends getting images for Grade I listed buildings in Monmouthshire and Grade II* listed buildings in Monmouthshire, with a couple of my family members who could bear to indulge me. It was a fantastic opportunity to revisit places that had filled my childhood. I was quite a long way from the county then, and am even further distant now, but it remains a place for which I have huge affection. KJP1 (talk) 21:08, 6 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

p.s. A number of the images could definitely be improved upon! But access can be tricky. If you are ever in that neck of the woods with your camera/phone… KJP1 (talk) 21:11, 6 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Tomorrow I’m going to try and go to Plas Machen and Machen House with my lenses and see what I can do. If St Michael’s Church is open, I may be able to snap Machen House better from the graveyard. I think Plas Machen will be tricky, as from what I can it’s only accessible via a home-farm track, which seems private. I might simply knock on the door and ask! Mac Edmunds (talk) 21:51, 6 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My experience of owners was almost universally positive, once you’d politely explained what you’re trying to do. One thought: some farm owners were initially wary, as theft of agricultural machinery, and to an extent rustling, are real problems in Monmouthshire as in much of the countryside. They sometimes needed a bit more convincing. KJP1 (talk) 05:46, 7 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

New topic, but I thought I'd continue here. Was just looking at the Church of St Basil, Bassaleg, page. I think footnotes "B" and "C" could probably be put as normal paragraphs in the article, as they are quite significant to the church. I was looking at the article as I was thinking of adding a footnote explaining that Courtenay Morgan was the last member of the Morgan family to be buried at the church (at the time of death, that is) as the subsequent three Lords Tredegar were catholics. That bit, I think, could be a footnote, as it is pretty minor, and only for added context. I thought I would consult you as I assume the footnotes I mention are your work. Mac Edmunds (talk) 20:33, 6 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Go right ahead and give it a try. I have a weakness for footnotes, and it’s entirely possible they would be better in the main text. KJP1 (talk) 21:02, 6 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Noted… a job for tomorrow. I have also become partial to the humble footnote. A good way to cram in extra knowledge… :-) Mac Edmunds (talk) 21:46, 6 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Your attention please 🙏

Hi @KJP1: Im sorry but who even is DragonofBatley (talk · contribs)? I have not clue who they are honestly. I live in Bath, Somerset and have never been aware of who this user is. I make articles for the with the UK Gazeteer because it lists numerous English settlements and civil parishes that have zero to no inclusion on the site. So for example, I created a civil parish recently for Eccleshall (parish) because it covers a large area and I do actually abide by the guidelines. Nobody has given me any issues with them. I just had a read through their articles and they used zero to no notable sources and were focused more on Lincolnshire, West Midlands County and unitary boroughs. I am only focused on smaller hamlets and villages of civil parishes that actually exist. If theres a bit of similarity then i was not aware of this. I can see they were quite aggressive and ive been nothing more than open to working with other editors. I only work on two topics: Civil parishes (with settlements if applicable) and Churches. If you were to look back at my edits such as: Canwell, Knypersley, Wolseley Bridge, Gnosall Heath etc... These are very well sourced and have been with Francis Firth, Genuki, etc becauss these sources are common amongst settlements. If you want to work with me on them. I be open to WP:Mentoring or having you check them. If you be open to that @KJP1:? The Lonely Lamb (talk) 13:41, 8 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

What brought you to this page? KJP1 (talk) 16:39, 8 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Your pinging of me in a sockpuppet investigation. I was tagged in it and saw your post plus the decline to checkuser by Izno. The Lonely Lamb (talk) 17:58, 8 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I am as mentioned open to working with you on any articles as I do plan to send some to the Wiki Submission site. But I am happy to work with you as well if you would like a list of counties as I am actually working my way towards Cheshire and then Shropshire then back down to Worcestershire and Somerset Gloucestershire etc :) The Lonely Lamb (talk) 18:13, 8 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

See: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/DragonofBatley. KJP1 (talk) 15:41, 13 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, indeed. 🙏 --Tryptofish (talk) 22:13, 13 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Tredegar House

I can’t remember whether you’re an AFC reviewer. If you happen to be, would you mind reviewing the Tredegar House page. I’ve just done an extensive rewrite from Godfrey’s time to the present day, so it stands at about 50 references. I think it might be deserving of a C-class rank, not start-class as it currently is. TIA Mac Edmunds (talk) 07:04, 11 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Officially, I’m no longer an AFC reviewer, though I think I can do it by virtue of being a NPP. That said, you don’t need AFC rights to change to a C grade. You can do it yourself. I’ve had a quick look, and think it is about C, although it really could do with more on the architecture. It is arguably, Wales’ most important country house. KJP1 (talk) 17:51, 11 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that. I’ll re-grade it at some point. I agree as for the architecture, but it isn’t really my thing. I’m better on the family, although the architecture of the house does interest me. James Lees-Milne said it was the best in Wales in 1949… not much has changed since then really. Mac Edmunds (talk) 20:30, 11 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Capel Rhondda

On 15 September 2025, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Capel Rhondda, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that "Cwm Rhondda" was written for Capel Rhondda? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Capel Rhondda. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Capel Rhondda), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:03, 15 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Congrats, KJP1. (For reasons I can't quite explain, this makes me unable to get Help Me, Rhonda out of my head.) --Tryptofish (talk) 20:35, 15 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"Help Me Make It Through Hopkinstown After Dark..." Martinevans123 (talk) 21:59, 15 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Oxford city walls

On 18 September 2025, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Oxford city walls, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Oxford city walls. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Oxford city walls), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to nominate it.

Gatoclass (talk) 03:08, 18 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

He used "North Wallian" (WALLIAN for god's sake) instead of North Welsh. Bad article, dreadful. The fact that gets you a DYK is a sign of Wikipedia's lack of oversights. 2600:1700:7808:24B0:818B:3D49:2026:41DF (talk) 04:03, 18 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it’s managed to educate you with a different demonym for ‘Welsh’, which is a good sign. - SchroCat (talk) 05:14, 18 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I rather doubt it’s managed to educate him in anything. But we try. KJP1 (talk) 21:35, 18 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Any relation to "Waly, Waley"?? Dreadful! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:18, 20 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"Velvet jackets and pyjamas..."

All the best with "White Cliffs"! If you decide to, of course. Just to say... my edit summary really wasn't aimed at you... honestly. Well, not totally. Yours, Clevor Trever 123 (talk) 19:08, 20 September 2025 (UTC): "Also, takes much longer, to get up Norff, the slow way...."[reply]

De nada - and now done. KJP1 (talk) 12:46, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Great stuff. So nice to have something new and interesting to look at. That's very industrious of you. Very Wallian! Martinevans123 (talk) 17:29, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]