User talk:Caeciliusinhorto

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A Barnstar for you!

		The Socratic Barnstar
		This barnstar is awarded in recognition of your eloquence and precision on Carus' Sasanian campaign! — ImaginesTigers (talk) 13:47, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sappho

May I beg a favour; would you recommend any translation of Sappho, for my own enjoyment? I'd be happy with a parallel text but absolutely need a good crib at the very least, and so much the better if it included the 21st-century discoveries. This is mainly because Ive read far too little of even the little that survives, but I'm also prompted now by some translations at Blond#Ancient Greece, one from a book that at Talk:Aphrodite#Golden haired we've found]] is not an RS for ancient Greece (Sappho also praises Aphrodite for her golden hair, stating that since gold metal is free from rust, the goddess' golden hair represents her freedom from ritual pollution.). That author also cites Alcman, apparently wrongly, and we've quoted that at Blond too - but I'd rather read Sappho! NebY (talk) 15:48, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@NebY: Of course: the short answer is for an English translation you want Rayor, Diane; Lardinois, André (2023). Sappho: A New Translation of the Complete Works (2nd ed.). Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9781108926973. To my knowledge it is the only English translation which is based on Camillo Neri's 2021 critical edition and commentary, the only full critical edition of Sappho since the 21st century discoveries; it's available as an affordable paperback or digitally through The Wikipedia Library.

tl;dr discussion of various alternatives

There are at least three other respectable English translations to include the 2004 and 2014 discoveries: Balmer (2018), Sappho: Poems & Fragments (New expanded edition); Lombardo (2016) Sappho: Complete Poems and Fragments, and Powell (2019) The Poetry of Sappho: An Expanded Edition, Featuring Newly Discovered Poems. In each case this is an updated edition to a translation published before the major 2014 discoveries, so if you look for those you want to ensure you get the newest edition. (But even aside from the fact it's the most up-to-date, I think Rayor/Lardinois is better than any of these anyway for various reasons).

If you want a parallel Greek text, to my knowledge there's still not a better option than Anne Carson's If Not, Winter, which was an enormously influential translation; it was first published in 2002 however and so does not include any of the 21st century discoveries. Alternatively the Loeb (1989) has both Sappho and Alcaeus but frankly I think it's less readable. I've heard rumour of a planned new Loeb incorporating the new discoveries but I know no details.

To this day I occasionally see people recommend Mary Barnard's Sappho: A New Translation. If you like modernist poetry the translations are indeed lovely but the Greek text Barnard worked from was outdated even before her translation was published in 1958; I would say it's of historical interest only.

If you read Italian (and can get it either through The Wikipedia Library or your favourite academic library), Camillo Neri's Saffo – testimonianze e frammenti is the most recent full critical edition with Italian translation and commentary; my Italian is not good enough to comment on Neri's translation and it's a Serious Academic Edition with the associated Serious Academic Pricetag so I don't recommend it for light reading but if you want a Greek companion text to go with one of the modern translations that's the standard. Watch this space for Patrick Finglass's promised forthcoming critical edition of Sappho and Alcaeus with English translation/commentary (supposedly in 2026 in the Cambridge Classical Texts series)

As for Sappho also praises Aphrodite for her golden hair, stating that since gold metal is free from rust, the goddess' golden hair represents her freedom from ritual pollution: Yeah, none of this is in Sappho. She describes various people as goldenhaired (Helen, possibly Apollo, a girl in fr.98a) but not Aphrodite that I can find (though seh is golden-crowned in fr.33), and the ritual pollution stuff explanation is certainly not from Sappho. Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 17:17, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for all of this! Rayor & Lardinois is now on order - The Wikipedia Library's a wonder but the book may be more personal somehow. The tl;dr engrossed me and I'll return to it; I'll see how I get on but can well imagine wanting the Greek and eventually another translation, or two. Meanwhile I guess I'll find myself cleaning up Blond - editing is strange sometimes. NebY (talk) 22:18, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Rayor & Lardinois arrived after the print-on-demand delay, I went from Tacitus to Sappho, and my heart lifted. It seems a superb translation of a wonderful poet - which is of course practically impossible, but I don't care. I've spent long enough comparing translations of other works and cross-checking against the original to know when I've got lucky. Thank you very much! NebY (talk) 23:26, 26 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad you're enjoying it! Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 10:59, 28 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification Regarding Brooke's Heritage and External Source

I’ve reviewed one of the cited sources and noticed that it lists Brooke’s nationality alongside a Dominican flag, which appears to be inaccurate. Given that Brooke has never visited Dominica and has had no recent connection with his Dominican family due to estrangement, this may be misleading in terms of representing his heritage.

Heritage and nationality are not interchangeable, and this representation may lead to incorrect assumptions about Brooke’s identity. I will be contacting the source directly to request a correction. In the meantime, I believe the Wikipedia entry should either be updated to reflect verified and accurate heritage information (i.e., Guyanese and Dominican descent via grandparents), or the misleading claim should be removed pending clarification.

Could someone advise on the appropriate process or point of contact for addressing concerns like this? I’m happy to work collaboratively to ensure the article complies with Wikipedia’s standards for verifiability and neutrality. Thank you. Crescentsista (talk) 15:15, 19 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Precious anniversary

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:10, 22 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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