Template talk:Harvc

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DOI parameter

Could we get a parameter for a DOI for the chapter? Chapter-level DOI identifiers are getting somewhat common and it would something useful to add. Ifly6 (talk) 17:39, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Simple workaround:^[1]

• Smith (2001). A larger work.
• Doe, Jane. "17. A chapter with a DOI". In Smith (2001). doi:10.1000/xyz123

Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:58, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Ifly6 (talk) 05:18, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Trappist the monk: I'm looking to implement this myself but I'm not exactly sure how the DOIs are pieced together from Module:Citation/CS1/Identifiers into Module:Citation/CS1. I'm not sure what these parameters do in the latter calling the former:

ID_list, ID_list_coins = identifiers.identifier_lists_get (args, {DoiBroken = DoiBroken, ASINTLD = A['ASINTLD'], Embargo = Embargo, Class = Class, Year=anchor_year}, ID_support);

I think those are passed as variable options_t with variables are mainly from an argument wrapper? I'm also confused as to what options_t and id_support do. Any help would be appreciated. Ifly6 (talk) 20:13, 17 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I recently rewrote {{doi}} to use Module:Doi. Since then, because of discussion at Help talk:Citation Style 1 § CS0, I wrote Module:Sandbox/trappist the monk/identifiers as a prospective replacement for several (most?) cs1|2-supported identifier templates. The sandbox module will likely replace Module:Doi.

So, rather than fork a duplicate of the cs1|2 code, perhaps it is best to wait until the sandbox module is finished?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:54, 17 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I was unaware that anything was happening on that front. Thanks for your contributions; I'll hold off. Ifly6 (talk) 22:02, 17 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

References

1. Doe (2001).

Refer to a contribution or chapter in a larger work without multiple authors

Hello. Excuse me if this is strikingly simple. I'm trying to correct the contributor list on a previously written citation which looks like this:

• Holmes, Krys (2009). Montana: Stories of the Land. Helena, MT: Montana Historical Society Press. ISBN 978-0-9759196-3-7.
  • . ""Chapter 5"". In Holmes (2009). harvc: no authors in contributor list. (help)
  • . ""Chapter 7"". In Holmes (2009). harvc: no authors in contributor list. (help)
  • . ""Chapter 13"". In Holmes (2009). harvc: no authors in contributor list. (help)

I see that I could rewrite it using harv but I was hoping to keep the use of harvc with the chapters broken out below. I know that I could simply add |last= for each chapter, but that would lead to repeating the author's name on each line, which I'm hoping to avoid.

Is there a way to refer to chapters in a larger work without multiple authors using harvc without repeating the author's name on each line? MountainBarley (talk) 13:07, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Short citations must have author/year and usually a page/location. The standard method, as I understand it, for your situation is simply {{sfn}}:

… something needing a citation,^[1] followed by some more.^[2]

BTW, please change "Helena, MT" to "Helena, Montana". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:19, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

1. Holmes 2009, ch. 5.
2. Holmes 2009, ch. 7.

Thanks for the quick reply.

The source I gave above is in the Bibliography of the page. It is cited twelve times using sfn each time with pages and locations. Each of those references don't link to the website but to the bibliography. I am guessing the previous editor did it this way as the source has the book separated into chapters on their website (no master document).

Does it make sense to get rid of the source in the bibliography and move the links up into the references using sfn as you have it in your comment above? 2605:59C8:21B6:5010:94CB:934:2655:8D16 (talk) 13:43, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I accidentally logged out while replying. That's me above. MountainBarley (talk) 13:45, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The current arrangement of Holmes (2009) citations in the article Montana is clearly unsatisfactory. I suggest indeed that the extra three chapter entries in the "Bibliography" section be removed and, if you wish, incorporate the URL for the chapters into the {{sfn}} construct, as above. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 14:14, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for taking the time to help! MountainBarley (talk) 14:36, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion at Module talk:Footnotes § loc, at

 You are invited to join the discussion at Module talk:Footnotes § loc, at. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:47, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chapter doi

Trappist the monk, can we add a |chapter-doi parameter, separate from |chapter-url? Or is the workaround here Template_talk:Harvc#DOI_parameter sufficient? Bogazicili (talk) 20:59, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adding whitelist/wrapper template handling to this template

Currently, Module:Harvc generates a "harvid" reference id and checks to see whether it exists on the page, showing an error if it does not. This currently does not work for "wrapper templates" (e.g., {{Cite Cambridge History of China}}) which generate non-unique citations depending on parameters. Currently, editors have to set |ignore-err=yes to suppress errors in this case.

In the Module:Harvc/sandbox, I have altered the target checking function (target_check()) to call the version in Module:Footnotes that does handle wrapper templates and whitelisting. I've updated the test cases to test both the "no target" case and the case where a wrapper template is whitelisted (e.g., no errors are generated).

Folly Mox and Trappist the monk believe that this used to work. I don't have an easy way to check that, but it doesn't work currently and the sandbox version makes it work.

Any comments or thoughts on this? Any objections to me copying Module:Harvc/sandbox and Module:Footnotes/sandbox to their corresponding live templates? — hike395 (talk) 21:30, 25 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think that I already said that if you have a workable solution, apply it.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:02, 25 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Implemented Please let me know if you see anything odd. — hike395 (talk) 16:14, 26 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Adding translated titles

Currently there isn't a param for translated chapter titles, like |trans-title= in {{citation}} and its variants; think similar could be added here. Maybe |ct=? seefooddiet (talk) 22:38, 6 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Anchors without a publication year?

Is it possible to use {{harvc}} to anchor to something like Plutarch, Parallel Lives without a publication year? Ifly6 (talk) 08:58, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No, but when you quote Plutarch, you quote from a specific edition, not from his 2nd-century text, right? OTOH, "Plutarch's remarks on Pericles suggest …^[1]" -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:07, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The second century text doesn't exist. Not to get too in the weeds there are only later manuscripts (scribal copies) which are emended to produce a composite version which is what scholars think Plutarch would have written. The versions after that are specific translations usually. Regardless, it is not customary in the field to cite a specific passage by the critical text edition or translation. Ifly6 (talk) 16:15, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So what is customary in the field? I find it hard to believe that a citation supporting a particular assertion doesn't require a specific citation. Does the shown example answer you question? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:36, 11 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

What would be customary in the field would be something like (to use Oxford Classical Dictionary abbreviations) Plut. Mar. 5. My question is how to construct the anchor. If I had entries as follows, it tells me I need to provide a year:

• Plutarch. Parallel Lives.
  • —. "Marius". In (). harvc: missing |year=. author missing from source list. (help)

Passing |year=nd also doesn't seem to work either: none. "Marius". In Plutarch, Parallel Lives (nd). Nor can I suppress the apparent demand for an author.

If I could just put down a wish list, I'd like it to display with no quotes in italics, to not require a year (or to specify the {{harvc}} → {{cite book}} link by {{harvid}}), and then to specify anchor (for {{harvnb}} → {{harvc}}) also by {{harvid}}. Right now I would have to list each Plutarch Life separately by repeatedly invoking {{cite book}}, which I think this template(?) can help avoid. Ifly6 (talk) 03:02, 11 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

References

1. Plutarch, Parallel Lives, Pericles.

"Template:Sfnc" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Template:Sfnc has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 March 19 § Template:Sfnc until a consensus is reached. Steel1943 (talk) 23:07, 19 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Add ref parameter

I'd like to be able to use a parameter like |ref={{harvid|Lintott, ''Constitution''|1999}} to set the anchor directly by name, just like as is possible with {{cite book}}. Can that be added? Ifly6 (talk) 07:17, 17 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise, if this is what the |id= parameter already does, is the name mismatch intentional and can the API be made consistent? Ifly6 (talk) 07:21, 17 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes you can use {{harvid}} in |id=, and link to it with any of the sfn or harv templates, it functions the same as |ref= in {{cite book}}. I'll leave the question of consistency up to someone who can edit modules. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 10:32, 17 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]