Talk:TVA (disambiguation)

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Requested move 2 February 2019

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 03:46, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

TVA → TVA (disambiguation)
TVA → primary redirect to Tennessee Valley Authority – Judging from the pageview stats, the Tennessee Valley Authority appears to be the primary topic for "TVA" by a large enough margin to warrant a primary redirect. Bneu2013 (talk) 01:01, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Bneu2013 (talk) 01:01, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

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  • Oppose - I have a very high threshold for displacing two- and three-letter acronym disambiguation pages because I feel we serve readers better with the DAB at primary, and serve future editors better by compelling current editors to not be lazy by using acronym redirects. -- Netoholic @ 02:24, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per PRIMARYTOPIC/PRIMARYREDIRECT. All of the other uses of TVA are obscure. We serve our readers best by taking all who search with TVA directly to this article since it’s what the vast majority will be seeking. —В²C ☎ 08:21, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Born2cycle: - I think this represents a flawed understanding of how exactly readers get to our articles. In reality, most people get here via search engines, and those engines largely don't care about (even to the point of intentionally ignoring) our page titles. They instead rely on keywords and context. Think about this: If your point were true, then certainly the page views for TVA whould be some significant proportion of Tennessee Valley Authority's, since you think we're not taking readers directly to the article. But in reality, "TVA" only gets about 3% of the views of that article. Now, even if it were the case that ALL of that 3% were actually seeking this article, that hardly seems like an inconvenience, and I think you'd have to cite some strong evidence of even that many. I would argue that almost all of that 3% are actually coming to the DAB as the navigation aid its intended to be. But if we were to make this move, the we absolutely inconvenience 100% of all the other seekers by making them go to an article they definitely aren't interested in, and then making them use a hatnote to get to the DAB. Fundamentally, a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT isn't for the readers... its for the editors who would make use of such a term very often and don't want to use piped links. So what we really should be considering is whether we want current editors to use such a redirect often or if we'd rather they link directly. I think two- and three-letter acronyms are very easily made ambiguous in the future as new topics are created, so future editors (who will have to fix those indirect links) would prefer we just use direct links from the start. -- Netoholic @ 16:23, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'm fully aware of all that. No matter how many get here via other means that are out of our control, our concern is how people using WP search get to our articles, because that is within our control. And that's the basis for WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. We also presume that the distribution of articles likely to be sought is about the same for people searching externally or internally. So maybe only 3% are of TVA searchers are using WP internal search, but most of them, we presume, at about the distribution indicated by page views, want the Tennessee Valley Authority. That's really all we've got to work with. The only real alternative is to practically ignore PRIMARYTOPIC altogether. --В²C ☎ 21:15, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose To anyone in Europe "TVA" means Taxe à la valeur ajoutée; leaving aside this given the wide spread of 3-letter acronyms, while not the intention the result would be a clearly negative move against readers worldwide. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:08, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Isn’t there a trick for counting how many visitors to this DAB then follow which link? If not many wanting Tennessee Valley Authority get there via TVA, then it may not be worth the negative impact of the new hatnote that would be required at the top of Tennessee Valley Authority. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:37, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Don't know if this is the trick you mean, but creating a redirect like TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority) → Tennessee Valley Authority and put that on the disambiguation page, let time pass, and then see the page hits on the redirect. Possibly with similar new redirects for some or all of other entries. -- JHunterJ (talk) 14:59, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, that sounds like it. Get some data to inform the discussion. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:11, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Wikipedia page views are not an appropriate yardstick to assess primary topic status. Even if they were, there is no strongly dominant topic in the stats provided. Except some very well-known entities such as FBI or CIA, TLAs rarely benefit from a PT treatment. — JFG talk 22:29, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • JFG How are page views not appropriate for determing the primary topic? One of the guidelines is "A topic is primary for a term with respect to usage if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other single topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term." The pageview statistics, as well search results, confirm that people who search "TVA" are most likely to be searching for "Tennessee Valley Authority". How is this any different, than, say NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, NRA, EPA, DHS, LLC, etc? Bneu2013 (talk) 22:55, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • (edit conflict) JFG, the question isn't whether a TLA benefits from PT treatment, but whether users benefit from PT treatment of a TLA. Why should TLAs be treated differently from other terms that have primary topics? After all, PT is written with respect to terms, and TLAs are terms. If most users searching with a given TLA are seeking a particular topic, then that topic is the primary topic for that TLA, by definition. Why wouldn't users benefit from treating the TLA accordingly? --В²C ☎ 22:56, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 16 May 2021

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved as proposed. After much-extended time for discussion, consensus is narrow, but there is a well-argued consensus in favor of the proposed move. BD2412 T 03:19, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

TVA → TVA (disambiguation) – Acronym is most suitable for primary redirect of top viewed article with this acronym Tennessee Valley Authority, as the company logo and weblink involves it rather than the full name, and the company is synonymous with the acronym in history publications and pop culture such as the film 'O Brother, Where Art Thou?' and in the country music scene including Alabama and the Drive-By Truckers.[1][2] Also see claims made by first move attempt supporter, and notice that the Tennessee Valley Authority is almost consistently the top article in views with this acronym, excluding Time Variance Authority, which appears to surpass the Tennessee Valley Authority due to its appearance in recent Marvel Cinematic Universe productions, which will probably see a temporary increase over the Tennessee Valley Authority article due to appearance in these movies, thus making any claim that the Time Variance Authority will be a possible counterargument in keeping the TVA page as the disambiguation page rather than the Tennessee Valley Authority primary redirect redundant.

References

  1. ^ "Tennessee Valley Authority". Tennessee Encyclopedia.
  2. ^ "Valley of the Dams". U.S. National Archives.

– AppalachianCentrist (talk) 23:08, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support per nom and WP:COMMONNAME. The TVA is well known historically and has long-term significance. Randy Kryn (talk) 00:33, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Just because one option may have the most views doesn't mean that it has more than all others combined per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC nor does it override significance considerations. OP even admits that there is/will likely be a skewing of results for the foreseeable future due to the MCU show, so this is not the time to make an WP:ASTONISHing change. Long-term significance is national-level at best (more likely regional), not WP:GLOBAL. Also, abbreviations are a special case, and unless one item is vastly more significant or used, I have a very high bar to convince me that any TLA should be anything but a disambiguation page, and this doesn't meet the threshold. -- Netoholic @ 03:13, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Netoholic. 162 etc. (talk) 03:21, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nomination and Randy Kryn. A WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT if there ever was one. Comparable to such unquestioned primary redirects as FBI or CIA [since it likewise dates back to the New Deal, WPA (Works Progress Administration) is also ripe for a similar RM]. As has been already pointed out by one of the final participants in the previous RM (Talk:TVA#Requested move 2 February 2019, above), "[H]ow is this any different, than, say NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, NRA, EPA, DHS, LLC, etc?". —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 04:15, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • How is it different? By less significance and fewer page views by orders of magnitude. Your examples are cherry-picking. For every TLA that is a primary redirect, I can cite 10 that are dab pages. Each situation is different and must stand on its own merits when looking at how many articles share a particular TLA. -- Netoholic @ 09:00, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      Of course those examples are cherry picking and of course for every TLA that is a primary redirect there will be at least a hundred that are not. Each situation is indeed different and must indeed stand on its own merits and TVA is indeed one of those exceptional TLAs that merits acceptance into the rarefied club of primary redirects. AppalachianCentrist and Bneu2013 (the nominator in the previous RM) have presented the convincing evidence. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 16:03, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose not convinced there is a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC by long-term significance.--Ortizesp (talk) 15:01, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - per nominator and WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT. Convinced there is a primary topic per pageview statistics and global influence. One of the objections in the past was the French translation of value-added tax (VAT); however, there does not appear to be any evidence that TVA is a commonly used abbreviation for this in the English-speaking world. And I think it is wp:TOOSOON to determine whether or not the Time Variance Authority will supercede as the primary topic. Bneu2013 (talk) 16:47, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Same reasoning as above - TVA as an acronym has been used for more than 90 years to refer the Tennessee Valley Authority. Time Variance Authority could or could not eventually be a short term fad sparked by MCU "fanboys". Making decisions about what is the primary redirect based upon short term info is a bad way to do business. Ckruschke (talk) 18:14, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Not participating in the discussion, I just think it would make sense to ping the participants of the previous discussion to weigh in. @Born2cycle, In ictu oculi, SmokeyJoe, JHunterJ, and JFG:. Paintspot Infez (talk) 22:26, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. No PrimaryTopic. Tennessee Valley Authority is obviously only a local interest, and the Marvel thing definitely confuses the case. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 22:40, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • @SmokeyJoe: - would you mind elaborating on what you mean by "only a local interest"? Thanks. Bneu2013 (talk) 03:16, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • From an international perspective, Tennessee Valley is a local matter, certainly not of international significance. Several items on the DAB page are international. The MARVEL thing is international, and popular, and very likely long term popular. As much as I prefer to down weight commercial topics, which includes movies, the MARVEL thing has a 35 year history and is kind of big. As big as the Tennessee Valley Authority is, I think it is pretty obvious that it will be astonishing to get that for most of the world, even for most of the US. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 03:30, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • @SmokeyJoe: - I think you're underestimating the impact the Tennessee Valley Authority had, it has been around for nearly 90 years and has been cited by academic journals and history publications regarding its influence on a global scale in terms of economic development and energy in the modern world. It also been the highlight of international news stories such as the Kingston Fossil Plant coal fly ash slurry spill and the Supreme Court case 'Tennessee Valley Authority v. Hill', which was landmark case on environmental policy. So your point that it is a local matter is greatly invalid. Regarding the Time Variance Authority, it is a 'fictional' organization, and it is also seen more popularity because of its impact in the 'Loki' television series, but shows lose their popularity overtime and new Marvel shows will emerge that will take away from the one regarding the Time Variance Authority. The show will not see long-term popularity because there will always be something new too replace it. The Tennessee Valley Authority has been around much longer than the fictitious group, and it has held a much bigger impact in terms of a global scale than the Time Variance Authority. --AppalachianCentrist (talk) 16:04, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I was going to Support but compared page views with the MARVEL usage and was shocked to see they’re about the same. One could argue historical significance, but I reject that criteria per WP:IAR. Stunningly, no PT. —В²C ☎ 05:06, 18 May 2021 (UTC) see new !vote below --В²C ☎ 17:10, 18 May 2021 (UTC).[reply]
  • Oppose Time Variance Authority gets more views (22,548) than Tennessee Valley Authority (15,823)[[1]] and the DAB pages lists some items called "TAV" rather than just acronyms. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:28, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Crouch, Swale: - Time Variance Authority has only received more views recently due to its involvement in a MCU television series, television shows will end operations eventually and decrease in popularity since it is typically temporarily, plus it is also a fictitious organization. The Tennessee Valley Authority has been in existence for nearly 90 years and has been influential on a global scale on terms of energy and economic development, one of the sources I cited in another reply is a academic journal article that states from government officials the acronym is synonymous with the Tennessee Valley Authority because of its global influence on economic development and energy in the modern world. Also take for reference the landmark environmental Supreme Court case 'Tennessee Valley Authority v. Hill'. --AppalachianCentrist (talk) 16:04, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Basing page hits at a point when the interest in the Time Variance Authority is probably at its zenith is extremely short-sighted and is essentially putting your finger on the scale of the argument. The Time Variance Authority as an entity has been around for over 50 yrs and garnered essentially no interest until the Loki series was released. As the show progresses, interest in the organization will probably fall similar to the spikes and fall in interest in pages on famous people when they die. Arguing that the Time Variance Authority will stay in the public consciousness in a historically similar manner to the Tennessee Valley Authority is non-NPOV and crystal balling. Ckruschke (talk) 16:55, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Indeed. Look at the page views over a longer time span. Until a few months ago the MARVEL thing usually got under ten hits a day while the real agency consistently gets on the order of 1,000 a day. --В²C ☎ 17:20, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • TVA (Canadian TV network) also gets 1,031 views so even ignoring the Marval meaning I don't see a primary topic. I'd also point out regarding Born2cycle's point that even if most readers are either looking for Tennessee Valley Authority or the Marval that this move would require hatnotes at Tennessee Valley Authority and I don't think that's the case anyway given the Canadian TV network's name is "TVA" while for Tennessee Valley Authority its only an acronym. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:26, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          • What? The Canadian TVA gets more like 50 a day. There is no issue with using "TVA redirects here; for the xxx see yyy" hatnotes. --В²C ☎ 21:49, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
            • But its called "TVA" while "TVA" for "Tennessee Valley Authority" is only an abbreviation, leaving aside all the other uses we need to ask how often "Tennessee Valley Authority" is called "TVA". Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:17, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
              • The question is not how often "Tennessee Valley Authority" is called “TVA” but how likely someone searching for it will use “TVA” (close to 100% I bet). And given that it regularly gets 20x the hits of the Canadian TVA, it’s practically a moot point. —В²C ☎ 16:41, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per WP:IAR. By page views there is no primary topic here. By historical significance it's definitely Tennessee Valley Authority. But I just want to make it work well for our readers. If we leave the dab page at TVA then everyone searching with "TVA" is taken to the dab page and must look for their desired article listed there and click again. But if it redirects to Tennessee Valley Authority then about half the searchers will be taken to their desired article, about half will need one more click on the hatnote link to Time Variance Authority, and a small minority will need to click twice more: first on a hatnote link to get to the dab page, then once more on the link to their desired page. But far more will be better off (no extra clicks) than if we leave the dab page at TVA. So I say we WP:IAR the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC technicalities for the good of the encyclopedia; have everyone searching with "TVA" be taken to Tennessee Valley Authority so about half are better off, about half are no worse off (one extra click to get to Time Variance Authority either way), and a tiny fraction are one extra click worse off. Or, if you prefer, call likelihood a wash and give historical significance extra weight favoring a historically significant agency over a fictional entity. Either way, you have to support. --В²C ☎ 17:10, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Upon further consideration I think the proposal is supported by PRIMARYREDIRECT/PRIMARYTOPIC after all. The high page view count at the MARVEL article is all very recent and likely to dissipate over time, while the Tennessee Valley Authority high page view count is stable for the foreseeable future. —В²C ☎ 17:06, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. According to massviews ([2]) since 2015 Tennessee Valley Authority has had 2.2 million views which dwarfs the runner up (Transverse abdominal muscle at 678,000) and is more than everything else combined, satisfying the criterion for primary topic by usage. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 19:21, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. Hardly "local interest". I'm British and I would think of the Tennessee Valley Authority first and foremost. Extremely notable organisation in history. -- Necrothesp (talk) 00:03, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support In terms of long term significance this seems to be the strong primary. In terms of usage, while page views for the Marvel institution make that fuzzier, this is one of those cases where looking at a wider time range makes very clear that recentism is at play.--Yaksar (let's chat) 21:50, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. By any reasonable standard, the primary topic for TVA is the Tennessee Valley Authority. -- Calidum 17:28, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - educational significance gets this one Red Slash 23:05, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 31 May 2025

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. – robertsky (talk) 20:14, 12 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

TVA (disambiguation) → TVATVA – The previous move discussion personally feels as though it was opened too soon and as though there was a deadline. There wasn't yet time to see the long term effects of Loki yet. The previous discussion closed narrowly, and Time Variance Authority still has 9k views in April (compared to Tennessee Valley Authority's 16k), despite the fact that Loki ended over a year and a half ago, and the Time Variance Authority hasn't made an appearance in the MCU since Deadpool & Wolverine, nearly a year ago now.

I don't see any harm in TVA being a disambiguation page with two primary topics. I will admit, I do likely have a potential bias on this issue, as I was a fan of the Marvel Cinematic Universe until 2024. But I don't see an unambiguous primary topic for the term "TVA". FireDragons52 (talk • contributions) 01:47, 31 May 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPathtalk 04:40, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: The Tennessee Valley Authority has been a very important thing for more than 90 years. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:06, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd agree with that, however I've primarily seen it as being a local importance in the US (or just Tennessee), not global (a minor point of discussion in the previous RM). As a Canadian, my perspective will likely differ from somebody either interested in energy or around Tennessee, but I asked a couple people in my local community and they hadn't heard of Tennessee Valley Authority. Personally speaking, I was rather astonished to be lead to a (seemingly) random organization, a lot of people may go to TVA with the intention of getting to the Tennessee Valley Authority article, but WikiNav shows nearly 4.5% of outgoing pageviews leading to the disambiguation page. FireDragons52 (talk • contributions) 07:41, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The Tennessee Valley Authority has not just been important in the Tennessee Valley region. It was a big thing nationally in the New Deal / Great Depression era, although I'll grant that it might not be known so much outside the U.S. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:18, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I'll ping the participants of the previous discussion(s) tomorrow morning as it'd make sense for them to weigh in. FireDragons52 (talk • contributions) 07:42, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging the previous discussions' participants: AppalachianCentrist, Randy Kryn, Netoholic, Roman Spinner, Ortizesp, Bneu2013, Ckruschke, Born2cycle, Crouch, Swale, Shhhnotsoloud, Necrothesp, and Yaksar. FireDragons52 (talk • contributions) 22:36, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I note I wasn't pinged. Red Slash 05:17, 18 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I apologize, I note now that I had missed you originally. FireDragons52 (talk • contributions) 00:24, 19 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Apology accepted, I'm sure it wasn't intentional. Red Slash 17:27, 20 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The pageviews of pages where the disambiguated term is not the WP:COMMONNAME are not really helpful in establishing the primary topic of the disambiguated term. Looking at the pageviews for the last year, we find that "TVA" and "tva" jointly had 4458 views. OTOH, "TVA (Canadian TV network)" had 24,837 views, which would make that the primary topic for "TVA". If anyone wants to support that, I'm with them, but my first choice is always disambiguation. Paradoctor (talk) 14:08, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - no single usage is "more likely than all the other topics combined", and the bar needs to be even higher since we are dealing with a three-letter acronym. -- Netoholic @ 03:42, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The Tennessee Valley Authority is an encyclopedic topic; no question. The Marvel usage is trivia, literally. The other uses are relatively insignificant. I’m generally not a fan of the historical significance criteria, but even I recognize its applicability here. Besides, if you Google TVA the utility dominates the results. The primary topic for “TVA” is clearly the utility, and leaving it as a PRIMARYREDIRECT serves our readers best. —-В²C ☎ 17:54, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Google results are user-specific. For example, I've just Googled "TVA", the first page was all hits related to TVA (Canadian TV network), with one result for the Wikipedia article Time Variance Authority. See WP:NWFCTM. 162 etc. (talk) 18:04, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Using google.de, "Tennessee Valley Authority" and "Time Variance Authority" appear only at the end of the second page of search results. Everything else is not even mentioned on our dab page. Paradoctor (talk) 18:59, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The question is not how popular "Tennessee Valley Authority" or "Time Variance Authority" are, the question is what a user is looking for when using the query "TVA".
    Almost none of the hits for the first two come via "TVA", relative to their total page views. "TVA" is not their COMMONNAME. OTOH, "TVA" is the COMMONNAME of TVA (Canadian TV network), and a few others. Paradoctor (talk) 18:51, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Have you had a look at the logo and flag of the Tennessee Valley Authority? The first page of my Bing search results are all about the Tennessee Valley Authority. The first page of my DuckDuckGo search results are similar, except with one link for Time Variance Authority (a topic of low historical importance that, according to prior discussion, was getting 4 views per day in 2019). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:01, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    "look at" Did you look at the article title? It's "Tennessee Valley Authority", not "TVA" or "TVA (foo)". If you wish to change that, discuss it there. As things are now, "TVA" is not the WP:COMMONNAME for "Tennessee Valley Authority".
    "my Bing search results" That has been already been adressed and refuted as immaterial. It's different for everyone, and thus meaningless, given the diversity of outcomes across different users and search engines. Paradoctor (talk) 19:22, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Search results vary but are not totally irrelevant. With Google, my first four pages of results are all for Tennessee Valley Authority except one link on the first page for a topic not listed and one on the second page for the Time Variance Authority. Search results from countries where English is not the primary language should be discounted somewhat. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:25, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    That also has been addressed above. Unless the Trump has annexed Canada yesterday or something. Paradoctor (talk) 19:31, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    My results on page 1 of Google (in private browsing mind you) are the Canadian television network, with one result on Time Variance Authority. Every result on Page 2 is the television network as well, as is every result on Page 3 except for two results on the Tennessee Valley Authority. The French Wikipedia and their article on the television network show up before the Tennessee Valley Authority. Search results, even in only English-speaking countries, just vary too much. FireDragons52 (talk • contributions) 03:48, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Nothing has changed since the last RM. As I said there, I'm British and I would think of the Tennessee Valley Authority first and foremost. It really is the most notable organisation using this abbreviation by long-term significance. It also is, if not the most common, then a very common term for the organisation. -- Necrothesp (talk) 22:01, 1 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Anecdotal evidence at best, as I said in an earlier reply, I asked a couple people in my local community and they hadn't heard of Tennessee Valley Authority. Somebody who's interested in energy or history or is from or living in the United States is much more likely to think of the Tennessee Valley Authority, while a Canadian might think of the Québécois TV network, a Marvel fan might think of the Time Variance Authority, and somebody from or living in France might think of Taxe sur la valeur ajoutée. FireDragons52 (talk • contributions) 03:43, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Forgot this in my previous reply, my mistake, but I'd say nothing has changed since the last RM is false. The last RM was opened before the show even premiered and closed just 3 days after the first episode. Since then, Marvel's TVA has appeared in a second season and a film, and nearly a year has passed since either of those. It wasn't possible yet to judge the long, or medium-term, popularity of the Time Variance Authority. Additionally, it was closed as consensus is narrow. At the time, Time Variance Authority surpassed the Tennessee Valley Authority, admittedly likely due to it's appearance in the MCU, however it hasn't appeared in almost a year and still has about half the page views of Tennessee Valley Authority, which I wouldn't consider as enough to make Tennessee Valley Authority much more likely than any other single topic from WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. FireDragons52 (talk • contributions) 04:02, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Which makes no difference to the fact that the Tennessee Valley Authority is the clear primary redirect by long-term significance. Anything else is pure WP:RECENTISM. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:15, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The age of the Tennessee Valley Authority is a different conversation from the idea of it being the primary topic, it places undue weight on the company's age. Google Trends shows Tennessee Valley Authority only having high search density in the United States, namely in cities in and around Tennessee, similar to how searches for the Canadian television network are concentrated around Quebec. FireDragons52 (talk • contributions) 09:24, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Long-term significance is not the same thing as age, but the duration of a topic's relevance is an indication of long-term significance. Some topics suffer from WP:RECENTISM and tend to fade in readership interest over time. Any in-depth history of the Great Depression and New Deal will feature the Tennessee Valley Authority. Recentism could be a factor for the fictional organization that was featured in some recent entertainment. The readership interest in the Tennessee Valley Authority is about ten times higher than for the Canadian television network. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 11:14, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    "readership interest" Is that the same as "people meaning 'Tennessee Valley Authority' when querying for 'TVA'"? You did note that the combined page views for "TVA" and "tva" are less than a tenth than those for the TV network?
    Oh, and lest we forget: WP:BTA. Somehow this often gets not mentioned in discussing PTs. Paradoctor (talk) 11:45, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    That's probably because it's an obscure essay that carries no weight. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:28, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Dismissing data doesn't advance your case. 🤷 Paradoctor (talk) 15:59, 4 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I mean, I can look at Google Trends for 2017-2020 as well and still see that Tennessee Valley Authority only get high search density in cities in southeastern states in the US and the Canadian television network is only in Quebec, and the Canadian television network actually had a higher average search count than the Tennessee Valley Authority (about 58 to 10, Tennessee Valley Authority peaked at 18 in this snapshot), while I do think the TVA results are likely at least partially due to Google suggesting the network for anyone in Canada who types "TVA", TVA Nouvelles was getting an average of 33 a day, and never falling below Tennessee Valley Authority (though getting only 2 searches above at one point, 12 vs 14, in May/June 2018). Tennesee Valley Authority is a local interest, not a global one. FireDragons52 (talk • contributions) 10:13, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per WP:GLOBAL. "Tennessee Valley Authority" may be primary meaning for those lived in Tennessee or Southern United States. However, that's not in case in other countries. In Japan, "TVA" may mean "TV Aichi", In Canada, "TVA" may mean a French-language television network based in Quebec, not even TVA (Andorra) and TVA (Albania). I guess there's no single primary meaning globally for term "TVA". 103.111.102.118 (talk) 09:10, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on long-term significance, as elaborated by Born2cycle and Necrothesp above. feminist🩸 (talk) 09:55, 14 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on long-term significance; for example, it actually exists. For another, it'll stay just as relevant ten years from now Red Slash 05:15, 18 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as per Netoholic. TLAs are by nature well-used, and this one has well over a dozen possible meanings. BD2412 T 00:58, 4 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support disambiguation as with many common acronyms, what exactly "TVA" stands for is very person- and sometimes place-dependent. wizzito | say hello! 18:49, 4 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now, per WP:TOOSOON. As others have pointed out, Time Variance Authority's prominence is very recent, and as such, I think it is a far bet that it is too soon to predict how long this will last. From a historical perspective, Tennessee Valley Authority is the primary topic by a very large margin. Whether or not Time Variance Authority will continue to receive large numbers or views five or ten years from now is difficult to predict. Bneu2013 (talk) 00:35, 5 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose In the previous move discussion, my rationale was:
In terms of long term significance this [the current primary topic] seems to be the strong primary. In terms of usage, while page views for the Marvel institution make that fuzzier, this is one of those cases where looking at a wider time range makes very clear that recentism is at play
A few years later, outside of the show's release windows the views for the Marvel page seem to continually decline (although not to pre-show levels). No opposition to readdressing in the future at a time where it doesn't appear to be attributable to a very recent TV show release.--Yaksar (let's chat) 02:58, 10 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.