Talk:Popular Forces

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Merge proposal

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result of this discussion was not merged. As more information was added to Abu Shabab's article, it became clear that he was notable in his own right. EvansHallBear (talk) 20:59, 27 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I propose merging Yasser Abu Shabab into Abu Shabab group. Abu Shabab is not notable outside of his leadership of the Abu Shabab group. There is substantial overlap between the two articles, making Yasser Abu Shabab WP:REDUNDANT EvansHallBear (talk) 17:42, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Everything in Shabab's article could be included in this one. Rainsage (talk) 18:17, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Longhornsg (talk) 19:18, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Evaporation123 (talk) 22:23, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Yasser Abu shabab had military activities prior to the formation of the popular forces in May 2025 leading a group of highwaymen that frequently targeted aid
this is from November 24https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/11/18/gaza-looting-aid-convoys-israel-famine/
Hamas attempted to assassinate Yasser back in November, when the Hamas security forces launched an ambush that killed several highwaymen back in November, in this article Yasser is mentioned by name
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/gaza-security-forces-ambush-gang The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 06:50, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, per above. 2018rebel 06:51, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above Davisonio (talk) 16:50, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose He has a long history and is apparently tied with ISIS. He is also the leader of an important modern group spearheading an important part in one of the most important modern wars. Sorry for so much "importants" but it's true. Yesyesmrcool (talk) 03:35, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above. Skitash (talk) 14:18, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above. Two different topics, even if there is inherent overlap ☞ Rim < Talk | Edits > 22:02, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose– they are different topics one about the leader who has done things before Popular forces and one about the current group. GothicGolem29 (talk) 12:36, 23 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article title

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Abu Shabab group does not seem to be the most common name for the organization. Most reliable sources use "Abu Shabab's group," while discussing Yasser Abu Shabab or refer to it as the "Popular Forces" or "Anti-Terror Service." The article should be moved to have a more recognizable and commonly used name or if one does not exist, the official name. 2018rebel 22:02, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I support a move to Anti-Terror Service, which is the most common name in sources. Evaporation123 (talk) 22:21, 6 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The "Popular Forces" seems to be the name most commonly used by the organization itself. More recent articles from the New York Times, Jerusalem Post, Al Jazeera, and the Times of Israel seem to have shifted to the name as well. 2018rebel 04:27, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
If that is indeed the case I am fully behind a move. Evaporation123 (talk) 04:41, 7 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This needs disambiguating from Popular Forces of Burundi and Forças Populares 25 de Abril, and probably also the two articles at Popular Liberation Forces and the two articles called Popular Force and Popular Force Party. A dab page obviously needs to be made but before we do so, is this article really the primary topic for the term "Popular Forces"? – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 17:51, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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Liberman has made several untrue claims in the past and this is no different. There is no evidence for IS links to this group. 108.29.64.228 (talk) 02:47, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

agree RossoSPC (talk) 03:07, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support de-emphasization of alleged IS links. The primary references are a Pan-Arab newspaper and the Israeli opposition. They should be removed from the infobox. It is sufficient to reference the accusations in the article itself. 2018rebel 03:34, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Lieberman's statement is ambiguous, but there is another Israeli government source alleging "ties" to IS.
According to Ynet/Yedioth Ahronoth (as reported by The i Paper, a reliable British source), an unnamed Israeli security official says the Popular Force has "close ties to Isis-affiliates across the border in Egypt". (https://inews.co.uk/news/world/the-isis-linked-bandit-gang-working-with-israel-in-gaza-3735530?srsltid=AfmBOop94byf_cb9kUHHAiveuyOWehBuuopeybq1suhXRh_CJwfb_xbV)
Now "close ties" is an ambiguous phrase and there is no elaboration about whether these are specifically military or ideological connections.
I think it's best to wait a little bit to see if anything definitive comes up. As of now, consider that the most noteworthy things about the Popular Forces are: 1) The Israeli support and anti-Hamas stance 2) The looting 3) The alleged IS affiliation. I will remove the "Islamic Statism" ideology from the infobox though, which is the most appropriate "de-emphasization" for now. Evaporation123 (talk) 04:21, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
other israeli politicians confirms Isis links https://x.com/yairlapid/status/1930633614846288106?t=luL5GsqOOA7nQb34OxfHHw&s=19 Kakashi7640sharinghan (talk) 08:21, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
His words do not mean that they are affiliated with ISIS. Brahim bmd (talk) 23:42, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The leader of the group was smuggling weapons to ISIS in sinai JaxsonR (talk) 04:25, 19 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That does not suggest affiliation RossoSPC (talk) 13:35, 20 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As is well documented by references in the article, these terrorists are linked to ISIS, and just like ISIS, they support Israel. Pretending that they don't support Israel and aren't ISIS is absurd. URabinowitz (talk) 23:05, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
If ISIS support Israel, as you claim, who staged the massacre in Beersheba and terror on the streets of Hadera in 2022? 2A00:20:C013:A720:F5EE:BD30:5230:AD9B (talk) 06:54, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That's not really an argument. Who did 911? People formerly supported by the US. Hamas itself was supported by Israel in the 80s to weaken PLO. It's called blowback (intelligence). FunkMonk (talk) 23:30, 10 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly brother. JaxsonR (talk) 05:08, 19 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

spreading lies

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Liberman saying «Netanyahu is arming groups similar to ISIS in Gaza» became « Israel is arming ISIS » in the wikipedia Brahim bmd (talk) 12:49, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Brahim bmd Various media outlets cited in the article have called them "allegedly linked to ISIS". Hamas and some in Israel too. Hind242 (talk) 12:51, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The lie started with the distortion of Liberman's statement. Brahim bmd (talk) 15:03, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Emblem AI generated?

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I can't put this in the article yet as there aren't any sources describing it as such and that would be WP:OR, but I'm 99% sure the emblem is AI-generated. It has the distinct yellowish tone of many generations, there are strange visual artifacts near the keffiyeh's edge, and the Palestinian flag colors are in an illogical layout that doesn't make much sense if it was made by a human being.

Could someone take a look if anyone in Arabic-language communications pointed out yet that the emblem is generated by AI? If so, then it can be added to the article. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 16:43, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

https://ecfr.eu/special/mapping_palestinian_politics/popular-forces-gaza/
This website showes the logo of the Popular Forces. Qhairun (talk) 16:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • shows.
Btw, the website was from ecfr.eu Qhairun (talk) 16:58, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not doubting that this is the actual logo, I just believe whoever made it used AI and it should be reflected in the article if a reliable source points it out. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 17:18, 8 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Even if it is AI generated as long as the group uses it as their logo does that matter? Denninithan (talk) 02:54, 19 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request 9 June 2025

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Description of suggested change: I would probably request adding America's support for the Mujahideen back in the 1980s in the see also section regarding potential cases of blowback (as it is in a very similar vein to Israel's support of the predecessors of Hamas in the 1980s as a counterweight to the PLO)

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ORIGINAL_TEXT
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CHANGED_TEXT

Testaccount13526 (talk) 04:54, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Which Wikipedia article are you specifically requesting be linked to? Also not sure that would necessarily fit on this article yet, would need to see some evidence that this is a similar situation first Cannolis (talk) 13:15, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 June 2025

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Revert the change done by an unknown editor (62.4.44.195) who removed Israel from list of allies purposefully to vandalise the article TheBalanced (talk) 07:20, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

All 3 edits from that IP were undone >24 hours before your request. Not sure how you even saw them without seeing they were already reverted. Not to mention none of those 3 edits removed Israel from the list of allies. Cannolis (talk) 13:12, 9 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A new, related article on the actual conflict between Hamas and the PF?

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Wondering if it would be a good idea for a "conflict article" to be made about the fighting between Hamas and the Popular Forces. Or perhaps not right now. Thoughts? Evaporation123 (talk) 02:59, 12 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

that sounds good man, go for it. maybe we could split some of this article? JaxsonR (talk) 04:26, 19 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"PF-Hamas Conflict" ??? JaxsonR (talk) 04:26, 19 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like a good idea its quite a notable event that they are fighting GothicGolem29 (talk) 23:56, 21 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Then me and Denninithan could remove the Popular forces from the Salafi Jihadist insurgency page. JaxsonR (talk) 23:59, 21 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah if they have their own page for their conflict they could be removed from that page GothicGolem29 (talk) 00:01, 22 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Even with a new page on the Hamas–PF conflict, it's still a part of the broader salafi jihadist insurgency in gaza (allegedly), just the most recent incarnation of it. Evaporation123 (talk) 03:11, 23 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I have made a draft for the page JaxsonR (talk) 03:12, 23 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I know, it doesn't change what I stated though. I'd strongly favor leaving in the PF in the Salafi jihadist insurgency in Gaza page, mentioning things like the Kerem Shalom looting, but going much more in detail on the draft. Evaporation123 (talk) 03:16, 23 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Seems like a good start for the page GothicGolem29 (talk) 12:25, 23 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The ideology

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@Denninithan Would you please show me in the source (let's not even discuss how the JNS is not a WP:RS, for now) you're attributing the ideology of the group to where it says that they're secularist? I'm sure I have missed it — 🧀Cheesedealer !!!⚟ 08:54, 21 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I gave the article a second read and it might be better to say they're "anti-hamas" and "anti-muslim brotherhood" rather than secularist.
Heres the quote: Yagur added that the Abu Shabab militia is “closer to Fatah and opposes Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood. Had they been ideologically affiliated with Hamas, they could not be trusted.” Denninithan (talk) 10:07, 21 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
So you agree with the lede being like this? The quote you provided doesn't declare anything decisively about their ideology except them being anti-Hamas, you agree? — 🧀Cheesedealer !!!⚟ 10:39, 21 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
yeah, my bad to be honest. Denninithan (talk) 20:42, 21 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Vote on a related page

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Hello to all,

There is an ongoing vote on the talk page of Salafi jihadist insurgency in the Gaza Strip to determine whether the PF ought to be included as alleged participants. Participation in the vote to get some sort of consensus would be greatly appreciated. Evaporation123 (talk) 05:57, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

IS

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“Does the Yasser Abu Shabbab gang, which cooperates with Israel, really have anything to do with IS, as the "yellow press" claims?

We've already written about it before, but it makes sense to repeat it.

After checking the situation with the media and sources directly from Gaza, personally familiar with what is happening, it was possible to establish the following:

The Yasser Abu Shabbab group (named after its leader) is based in Rafah in the south of the sector, and essentially represents an armed militia of local tribes and clans. They have long been smuggling and thefting in Rafah, and some of their profits were given to Hamas in exchange for not being interested in their activities and not trying to stop them. This continued until Hamas was expelled from Rafah by the Israelis, after which the Abu-Shabbab people occupied all the key points, stopped paying Hamas kickbacks and began to appropriate all humanitarian aid, and the Israeli forces did not prevent this in any way, but on the contrary established allied relations with this group, hoping to form a local self-government independent of Hamas from them. The attempt on the humanitarian Hamas did not tolerate, as well as the termination of payments, which marked the beginning of the conflict.

After the outbreak of the conflict, Hamas-linked media and accounts entered the battle, and began actions against Yasser Abu Shabbab on the information front, starting a rumour that this group was somehow connected with IS terrorists - although there is no evidence of this, the Abu Shabbab people did not take an oath, did not associate themselves with the terrorists in any way, and eventually issued a masterpiece of schizophrenia, sounding like "Israel sponsors a group associated with IS in Gaza", having in mind Yasser Abu Shabbab, thereby greatly cheering social network users and observers.

The Yasser Abu Shabbab group is a banal gang of smugglers and thieves, infinitely far from both terrorism and religion in general, which can be easily understood even by their appearance in the photo. Moreover, on the social accounts of the commanders of this group there were publications in support of Mahmoud Abbas and the autonomous administration in Ramallah - which would be simply unthinkable for IS terrorists.

As the inspection showed, rumours about the possible connection of Yasser Abu Shabbab with IS came because of a single person - Issam Nabakhin, one of the assistants to the leader of the group, who in the past allegedly joined the IS terrorists on the Sinai Peninsula as an ordinary militant, but then left the ranks of the terrorists and returned to Gaza and ended up in prison. Sources directly from Gaza, including those who know him personally, say the following - Issam an-Nahabin is widely known to many in Gaza, first of all for the fact that he adheres to extremely takfiristic beliefs, accusing everyone of disbelief, including IS terrorists, of belonging to whom he is accused, except for like-minded people who adhere to similar beliefs. For this reason, he constantly had conflicts in prison with his cellmates who tried to cure him of such views. He spent a very short time in Sinai and soon returned to Gaza, voluntarily surrendering to the Hamas security forces in exchange for a shortened prison term. Due to his beliefs, he considers the blood and property of Muslims to be allowed, so he soon found himself in the ranks of local gangs who were robbed. The last time he was before October 7, 2023, he was serving a sentence for attacking a police officer, and after escaping, he settled in Yasser Abu Shabbab.

It is also indicated that local IS supporters are aware of this man, and what is characteristic, consider him an apostate precisely because of joining Yasser Abu Shabbab.” 2A00:20:C044:A858:A13B:9819:2E7E:82DC (talk) 14:00, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

”The conclusions are obvious - Yasser Abu Shabbab is a criminal group that has nothing to do with Islamic jamaats, especially radical. All the talk about their connections with IS is based solely on the example of one person who once was on the Sinai Peninsula a long time ago, but since then has nothing to do with either IS or their beliefs, and moreover, is in extremely hostile relations with the terrorists.
However, it was picked up by journalists and made a loud topic for headlines, which produced a certain ferment of minds among people who do not read the news beyond this very headline, who decided with fear that Yasser Abu Shabbab is almost a "branch of IS in Gaza" and ran to share this "discovery" with the masses.
Why the accounts related to Hamas, which are the primary source of this throw, disperse such topics, are not difficult to understand - the facts are such that since 2017-2018 the number of IS supporters in Gaza is constantly growing, and Hamas can't do anything about it - in religious and methodological terms it cannot oppose anything, since the weight categories, to put it mildly, are too wrong, so those who too actively declared their sympathies with terrorists were imprisoned, and actively continue to spread the rumours that allegedly "IS cooperates with Israel", "IS has never attacked Israel", etc., using every opportunity for this, and all this A topic about Yasser Abu Shabbab from the same series.” 2A00:20:C044:A858:A13B:9819:2E7E:82DC (talk) 14:01, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
https://t.me/ardmlhm24/154
”The photo shows representatives of the Yasser Abu Shabbab group from Gaza.
Usually terrorists look like this (just kidding).” 2A00:20:C044:A858:A13B:9819:2E7E:82DC (talk) 14:04, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Is this from an article about Popular Forces(tho it calls it by a different name?) GothicGolem29 (talk) 01:22, 1 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
We know for sure that two Popular Forces commanders, Issam al-Nabahin and Ghassan al-Dahini, are linked to IS. Al-Nabahin was in the Sinai wing of IS and al-Dahini was in the Army of Islam which declared allegiance to IS in 2015. I cannot find any sources which say whether these men still hold IS beliefs or not.
Also of importance is the PF use of the Palestinian flag and adoption of nationalist symbols and tone. These would be directly against IS ideology which is anti-nationalist.
Ultimately, what we know about the PF's ideology amounts to speculation. The situation is still too ambiguous to come to a definitive conclusion about the PF-IS relationship. Evaporation123 (talk) 03:05, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Flag

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I have a source that shows the Popular Forces using a Palestinian flag: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=122102099072875302&set=ecnf.61576259066682

(I know it's Facebook but its there official page) JaxsonR (talk) 17:05, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]