User talk:Steinsky

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CLOSED

This should be discussed on Talk:Lytchett Matravers.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Lytchett Matravers

It is noticed that you removed the current title holder of the manorial title to Lytchett Matravers after the repeated vandalism of the article by Richard Horlock was reverted.

The title was indeed passed to Hon. G J Beck in 2005 by the Maltravers family, and a conveyance deed is held in his possession. If you would like to see a copy of it, then please provide an email address so that proof can be provided, but it was most certainly not a case of “self aggrandisement” or a “private joke” as has been noted on the article history. A separate email will be sent to the Wikipedia Foundation to rectify those rather defamatory notes.

As the transfer of title was a private arrangement, and not made a public document, as is allowed under conveyancing rules and the Land Registration Act, then obviously a publicly-available citation isn’t available. However, there was no need to remove the original paragraph that’s been in situ for a number of years before Mr Horlock’s repeated vandalism. Sadly, Mr Horlock is renowned for posting all sorts of fantastical claims or comments on social media in relation to the village as can be seen on platforms such as Facebook.

In the meantime, evidence of the Hon. G J Beck’s title will be sent to the Wiki Foundation and yourself upon provision of contact details. 92.23.58.214 (talk) 00:48, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This should be discussed on Talk:Lytchett Matravers, not on my page. Read Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Notability. -Joe D (t) 09:13, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A vanity “lordship”…

… is what, exactly? 89.240.137.94 (talk) 23:05, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Good article reassessment for Bristol Harbour

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Nomination for deletion of Template:UKcountythumb

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CLOSED

Moved discussed to Talk:Corfe Mullen.

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Corfe Mullen - Your Edits on 14th August

I'm afraid I cannot agree with your assertion the half the content should be removed because Wikipedia is not a business directory. Some of the entries, I accept, are somewhat commercial, but schools and churches? Also the number of pubs and clubs in the town (it was a village) are relevant to the character of the location and would apply to any village or small town. Most of these entries have been there since I created the page many years ago.

Are you going to do the same on all pages that list such details? You could be kept quite busy. Terry C (talk) 09:30, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Arms and Flag in English counties

Any further explanation as to why you’ve removed the flags and arms? I can’t find any suggestion on a quick glance through of the attached guidance that they shouldn’t be included and it seems like an enormous oversight. I for one would like to see them quickly in the info box for reference and I’m sure I won’t be alone in that sentiment Me.Autem.Minui (talk) 12:12, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is in the How to write about counties guidance, under "English ceremonial counties" – "Do not include flags in the infobox, as they cannot be placed in context there." The guideline is the result of extensive historical discussion on the UK geography WikiProject, for example some of the more recent discussions include:

If you need further clarification, or want to relitigate the issue, I'd suggest raising it on the WikiProject talk pages - I am merely maintaining the current consensus position. Joe D (t) 12:52, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good article reassessment for Bristol Old Vic

Bristol Old Vic has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 02:42, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of Charminster (disambiguation)

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Volcanoes of the United Kingdom

Hi, you removed the references to traditional counties at the article in the heading. On the rationale that these are an "obsolete geography". I have no problem with them being removed if they're felt unnecessarry, but its incorrect to refer to them as "obsolete"; the historic counties still exist, and are by far the most referred to geographic reference in academic circles. JoeyofScotia (talk) 11:14, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Stem Christie

I don't know why you reverted by change to the disambiguation page. There's a whole article about stem Christie to which I linked. On that page it explains the derivation of that word from Christiania. Jeisenberg (talk) 20:46, 15 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

my change Jeisenberg (talk) 20:47, 15 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I explained why I reverted it in the edit summary: following the policy explained at WP:PARTIAL, the disambiguation page lists items which people call "Christie" -- specifically Christie, and Christie alone, not a name that happens to have Christie somewhere in it. As WP:PARTIAL explains, disambiguation pages are navigation aids -- the purpose of the "Christie" disambiguation page is to help people who are looking for "Christie" to find the specific "Christie" that they are looking for, it is not an index of everything that happens to have that word somewhere in its name. Joe D (t) 20:59, 15 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

CS1 error on Bristol Channel

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Population WD in infoboxes

Saw the update to Limpley Stoke to fetch the population from Wikidata. Does this mean the documentation of Template:Population WD should be updated? Under 'Usage' it says "Use of this template in infoboxes is not permitted". -- Wire723 (talk) 11:51, 26 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No, good spot – I had in my head that issue had been addressed in that template some time ago, but either I'm thinking of a different one or the fix that I'm vaguely remembering didn't reach a conclusion. I'll swap it out later (or it could just be subst now, it has served its main purpose of fetching in the (definitely sourced – I did the Wikidata import!) 2021 data). Thanks, Joe D (t) 12:32, 26 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Your edits to Mansfield

I've been email alerted by a bot confirming you removed File:Not Much Matches Mansfield Beer.JPG and File:But he's never had a pint of Mansfield.JPG, in this 6 May change.

The images have been extant for 10+ years; the prose was added, uncited, in this July 2009 change closely followed by another July 2009 change.

I searched, sourced and uploaded the non-free images; the fact that they both exist acts as citations for the text. Luckily, I still monitor my email.

Obviously, I disagree with your edit summary, and your rationale is unclear - they are relevant (wp:imagerelevance), and were correctly sited (although this article has undergone many changes, including to layout) and are compliant with a FUR.

It would greatly assist if you could explain why you are so vehement? This sort of thing has happened in the past where editors invoke a 7-day bot, instead of raising discussions.

Lastly...I am obliged in another way, as I have immediately identified a persistent (new) sock/block evader which irks me, so I shall have to stick around a bit longer - looking forward to more trawling through histories/diffs 8¬(. TiA.-- Rocknrollmancer (talk) 21:47, 10 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I don't control the bot (I didn't know there was one).

I am not an expert on the WP:FAIRUSE rationales, and I am not vehement about it – you're welcome to challenge it if you think I've made the wrong judgement – but the main issue I can see with the adverts being on the article about Mansfield town is this criterion:

"Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding."

The article topic in question is the town of Mansfield, not Mansfield Brewery or Mansfield Bitter – they are a very small part of the article, and so I think it would be very hard to claim that they "significantly increase readers' understanding" of the town of Mansfield, or that it would be "detrimental to understanding the town of Mansfield" if the article did not include some beer adverts that ran briefly 40 years ago.

Luckily there is an article about Mansfield Brewery (which also covers Mansfield Bitter) where it would be much easier to make those claims. I have therefore moved the images and associated information about advertising to that article. Joe D (t) 09:17, 11 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks; I've only just had the chance to get back to you/this. I take your points, and appreciate your thoroughness. All of the images, some 20-ish IIRC, were moved by a disruptive editor during 2023 into a contrived Gallery, contrary to mos layout and image relevance/prose context. At a later AN/I, an admin opined these two non-free images were specifically out of place and temporarily hid them. I assume all images were later restored, but as I stated there's been many changes and I haven't checked. Rgds, Steve.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 23:53, 14 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Good article reassessment for Avon Gorge

Avon Gorge has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 14:48, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Bletchley and Fenny Stratford

As almost all of your edit was valuable, I won't revert. But you gave a new population figure but without a new citation - worse still, you left the Nomis2011 citation. Would you rectify, please? 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 21:11, 24 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

As the edit summary says, the population citations are in the table in the demographics section (per MOS:CITELEAD). The only Nomis citation I can see in the article is against a different claim, about built-up area, which I have not edited. Joe D (t) 21:16, 24 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, my mistake, I skipped to the end of the end of the line. My apologies.

But according to CITELEAD, either nothing in the lead should be cited or everything (significant) should be. The population figure is one of the most significant items of information about the parish and, if anything is cited in the lead, this is the one that most certainly should be. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 21:49, 24 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. I have no strong feelings about having the population citation in the lead there, so do whatever you think best. But I don't think CITELEAD does say that lead citations are "everything or nothing" – it says "...subjects may require many citations; others, few or none" – which I would interpret as being a fairly clear instruction to take a case-by-case approach and use as many as the article needs. Indeed, it suggests the citations are specifically needed for things "likely to be challenged", and that more are needed for "complex, current, or controversial subjects" – I would think a readily verifiable population datum from a national statistics agency the least complex and controversial of topics. Joe D (t) 22:07, 24 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

CS1 error on Buckland Newton

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Hillfort

Long time ago you created Category:Hill forts. The article title is Hillfort though. Do you know if there is a reason that the spelling is slightly different? (Please ping me when replying.) Marcocapelle (talk) 07:08, 18 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Marcocapelle it looks like Hill fort was moved to Hillfort in 2016. It appears there are various discussions about which is the more common term on Talk:Hillfort. Joe D (t) 08:06, 18 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like it is not a very big deal. Unless you object, I'll have the categories moved to hillforts just for consistency reasons. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:54, 18 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
If you like, I have no opinion on which is the preferable form. Joe D (t) 09:12, 18 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Alex Mapelli-Mozzi & Ashbourne, Derbyshire

@Joe D - I now see you have reverted in full another of my edits, this time to Ashbourne, Derbyshire. Having acknowledged your observations, could you give me time to make the necessary amendments before such reverting in full. Seemingly you're far more concerned with procedure than the content. Ofc if you think these articles are fine, then let me know and they can remain as they are (full of inaccuracies). I do get your point that my contributions have sometimes contravened editing guidelines but I thought Wiki works in a spirit of co-operation so could we work together to improve them svp? Best Primm1234 (talk) 13:02, 28 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

CS1 error on Bristol Museum & Art Gallery

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Joyce Dennys & the Revd Lord Frederick Beauclerk

@Joe D: hi there! I was just about to thank you so much for your attention to the Lord Frederick Beauclerk article, which ofc I made edits prior to re-reading the MOS guidelines - much appreciated.

And, whilst I now intend to take a breather & allow my comprehension of MOS to sink in before getting into any more hot water! I did publish those edits about Joyce Dennys so I could see whether my tendency to overlink etc is being remedied. And, I had in mind to ask you (because you're most helpful) to give that article a once over to see if it's on the right track... But I see you've already reverted it in full. Thing is, I double & triple-checked all the references and info before publishing, so I know the article is on the money - at least content-wise. Perhaps some of the references are now in the wrong place? I need to insert a reference to Burke's Landed Gentry (1965) DENNYS which is a publicly-available mine of information and supports a great deal of the additional info... Anyway, you've reverted it now, so dunno what to do? Certainly dun wanna get into any conflict, so maybe just let things be for time being..?

Also, just as a point of info on the other article, the caption for the Coat of Arms should specifically state they are the arms of the Revd Lord Frederick Beauclerk (and not simply Beauclerk), because the ecclesiastical ornaments denote his being an Anglican priest and therefore are specific to him alone. The only other Beauclerk clergyman was a bishop, so his arms wud display the ornaments of a prelate...

Anyway, many thanks again for helping - much appreciated & till soon. Best Primm1234 (talk) 16:05, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

PS. now that I was focussing on not overlinking in the Joyce Dennis article, I seem to have not paid enough attention to the references (altho I did add quite a few, hopefully, useful ones)... My apologies for this... Obvs I'm now under watch so gotta be extra careful, but prob is that the Dennys article is back to being littered with numerous mistakes... Just in case you were wondering what her family connections have got to do with anything! these explain a lot about her worldliness, how she got on so well during the War & who her husband was (btw he wasn't a Doctor of Medicine but he was a medical doctor, ie physician) and why they went to Oz etc etc...

Anyway I do understand why you felt inclined to revert the article (but ofc we're now back to square one)... I do much appreciate your help & let's liaise further in the not-too-distant.. All best wishes Primm1234 (talk) 16:44, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Joe D: just revised these articles, which I sincerely hope & pray are satisfactory. If not, please let me know so I can attend to it/them promptly. Many thanks in advance for your consideration and most helpful guidance. Best Primm1234 (talk) 02:19, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No, I can not see that any attempt has been made to address the issues with your changes to the Joyce Dennis article. You have made the same major changes to statements without providing new citations, such that the article now misrepresents its sources. It is not enough to just have any citation next to a claim in a Wikipedia article, the claim in the Wikipedia article has to actually reflect what is said in that source – in this case, you have replaced claims that reflect what is said in the source with claims that are absent in or directly contradict what is said in the cited source. You have added the same MOS:EASTEREGG links – linking to articles whose relevance to Joyce Dennys, or to the display text that you have linked, is nowhere made clear. You continue to use the word "updates" as your WP:EDITSUMMARY when making major updates. I have tried to be patient and provide guidance on these issues, and I can see that several others have done the same, but it is the exact same issues that seem to be coming up again and again. Joe D (t) 13:35, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Steinsky: my sincerely apologies... Let's look at where I'm going wrong if okay?

{{Infobox person

| name = Joyce Dennys

| birth_name = Isobel Dorothy Joyce Dennys

| other_names = Mrs Joyce Evans

| birth_date = 14 August 1893

| birth_place = Shimla, Punjab, British India

| death_date = 22 February 1991 (aged 97)

| death_place = Hampstead, London, England

| nationality = British

| citizenship =

| education = Princess Helena College, Ealing

| alma_mater = Exeter Art School

| occupation = Cartoonist - illustrator - painter

| years_active = 1916–1986

| spouse = Dr Tom Evans (m. 1919⁠–⁠1965)

| children = 2

| relatives = Sir Hector Travers Dennys (uncle); Rodney Dennys (cousin)

| awards =

}}

Infobox - most people (other than art aficianados & friends) addressed her as Mrs Evans or Mrs Joyce Evans;
She was born at Shimla in northern India under the British Raj (not India, as presently stated, but British India);
She lived at West House, Sandy Road, Hampstead NW3 - not in Camden Town;
Her nationality was British (not English) & the concept of citizenship is n/a in her case;
Her alma mater is a moot point - I left it as Princess Helena College but clarified it as being the Ealing establishment (ie. where she went);
Her husband was Dr Tom Evans (or more formally Major Thomas Evans DSO);
And I included her relatives for reasons previously stated...

In cases like this, it's probably best I steer clear because the version as now reverted back is, just in my view at least, quite under-par..! Were I starting from scratch it'd be a lot easier (& less problematic)...

Anyway, much obliged if you could advise where I'm going wrong in the Infobox section so we can make progress - many thanks in advance. Best Primm1234 (talk) 15:23, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In the preamble it states: She worked for the Voluntary Aid Detachment - normally as part of the War effort one wud say "served with" rather than "work for" (it wasn't normal civilian employment)... It goes on to say "Budleigh Salterton Auxiliary Hospital in the local Budleigh Salterton hospital" which I corrected...

I relocated the sentence about going to Australia because that has to do with her marrying an Australian Army veteran - she didn't get invited down under of her own volition (altho she certainly made the best of it whilst there)...

I added a ref. about the blue plaque, so not quite sure what the problem is there...

And "It premieres at the ADC Corpus Playroom in Cambridge in July 2024" obvs shud be in the past tense... (& I've added a ref. too).

Please advise (as I really do not want to be in the dog house for making best endeavours to improve this article)... Many thanks. Best Primm1234 (talk) 15:35, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Early life

Her father was a colonel (not a captain)... he was with his regiment at Shimla in Aug 1893.

"who was stationed in the country" (superfluous) and his wife, the Scottish-born housewife - she is not the Scottish-born wife & in those days Army wives were hardly housewives in the 1950s sense.. she was an Army wife with servants in attendance...

Far more interesting - I think - is that her father distinguished himself in medical circles becoming Surgeon-General having also received the degree of Doctor of Medicine... (Obvs she later married a doctor..)

It goes on to say "Budleigh Salterton Auxiliary Hospital in the local Budleigh Salterton hospital" which I corrected...

There is & never was such an institution as the London School of Art (as cited by an Australian journal) - I corrected this... And "worked for the Joint War Committee" is a misnoma too (which I corrected)...

Please tell me where I'm going wrong here - much obliged. Best Primm1234 (talk) 15:53, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

& so it goes on - a big error is MC Tindall (shud be M.G. Tindall)

Personal life

It states her husband was a doctor of medicine - which he wasn't. However Evans was a decorated WWI veteran (as mentioned at 1918 Birthday Honours)

Books

The titles of her works have been put in lower case whereas they had, when published, capital letters at the beginning of each word - no biggie (but just depends on whether one wants to be accurate or not)...

Do let me know if my thought processes are totally up a gum tree... Cheers Primm1234 (talk) 16:06, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Again, several of these changes are not substantiated by, or directly contradict the cited sources – her father's rank, for example (which you also separated from its citation by adding intervening text). See Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Wikipedia reflects what the sources say. If you have other sources of comparable quality that state otherwise, you can add that to the article with a suitable citation – explaining that sources differ. If you have a source that demonstrates conclusively that the current cited source is incorrect, then make the correction and add that – but bear in mind WP:NOR and WP:SYNTH, and the fact that Wikipedia must reflect what the sources say, without our own original research or synthesising sources to produce novel conclusions. Joe D (t) 16:20, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Joe D: but this is not my own research! Not in the slightest... clearly this is perhaps where any misunderstanding between us originates.

Frankly, as said, the article in its present form is very poor - I have no doubt such issues would not arise if I were starting from scratch. Bottom line is, though, I don't want to get the blame for trying to improve the article.

So... best is probably to give it a wide berth if it's going to land me in the soup (unless you can tell me otherwise)...

Best Primm1234 (talk) 16:25, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

PS. my dear Joe D: do you have access to Burke's Landed Gentry (18th edn), 1965, Vol. I, p. 203: DENNYS of Heaslands. Online it's a subscription source but, by good fortune, my own library includes almost all editions of BPB & BLG... Moreover all good public libraries have these publications in their Reference Sections.

Pretty much all of what we're quibbling over is cited in Burke's - it really is a mine of historical info.

I presume you will be satisfied if I cite BLG next to all the issues raised? Lemme know as better to ask in advance than getting into a ding-dong. RSVP. Best Primm1234 (talk) 16:42, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Citing a reliable source would certainly help, but it would not make your edits in the form you made them appropriate:

The sources must support the specific claims being made - as WP:SYNTH explains, the Wikipedia article must not synthesise unrelated claims from different sources to draw conclusions that are not explicitly made in them. For example, in your edit, you cited this BMJ article as evidence that her mother was Lucy, daughter of John Tulloch. The source makes no such claims, it just demonstrates that somebody named John Tulloch once existed, saying nothing at all about a Lucy or any connection to Joyce Dennys.
The content which you edited is already supported by appropriate citations and you changed it so that it directly contradicts those sources. If you have access to reliable sources which contradict the content in the article, then it would be appropriate to add those to the article and explain where different sources disagree about a fact – see Wikipedia:Verifiability ("if reliable sources disagree with each other, then maintain a neutral point of view and present what the various sources say"). Only replace the content if the criteria at WP:DUE apply – e.g. if the current cited source is out-of-date and a new source explains that the facts or the available evidence have changed, or if a plurality of reliable sources agree that the current cited source is wrong.

My suggestion would be to take this to the article's own talk page, and list each item you think is wrong with the current article, and what sources you have to show as much, so that somebody there can consider how best to incorporate that into the article. Joe D (t) 17:22, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The problems with the infobox can not be separated from the problems with the rest of the edits, because the Infobox should only contain information that is stated with sources in the body. In this case, "she was born in Shimla" – the source you cited for this does not say she was born in Shimla, it says she was born in Murree – you edited the text to say Shimla, thus misrepresenting the source being cited for that section of the text. Same for Hampstead vs Camden, you changed the text to something that contradicts the source being cited.

Most of the other issues with the infobox are straightforward manual of style problems of the kind that have been explained to you several times, such as MOS:DOC and MOS:EASTEREGG. Joe D (t) 15:57, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Joe D: ah, I see... the source concerning Shimla/Murree is not my citation but a hangover from a previous version - however, I accept I should be held accountable for this given that I've been attempting to overhaul the article by way of corrections. As far as Camden is concerned, I did reference that correctly, qv. www.camdenology.org.

Ref. MOS I've been making extra special efforts to get this right - but the previous version is so poor please forgive me if I've not got it quite right... My sincere apologies...

Now what to do? Please advise best way forward (if I do the corrections bit by bit, it won't match up whilst it's a work-in-progress). Your assistance is very much appreciated. Best Primm1234 (talk) 16:14, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of Dry point

The article Dry point has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

No significant coverage in independent reliable sources to establish notability. Found mentions, but no in-depth content.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Your technical move request

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Malvern

Why did you leave in Malvern Hills? You are the worst user on Wikipedia I have come across. Thank God for Wiktionary. Donnanz (talk) 19:13, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

CS1 error on Stour Provost

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A missing title error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. (Fix | Ask for help)

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