User talk:Ita140188

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Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment

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Nuclear Power

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Dear Ita140188, thank you for your contribution to wikipedia. There are several people working on the article about nuclear power, and your intrusion interferes with our work. Could you please stay away from this article for 2 weeks?

Afterwards, and before you make any changes to our text, please post your objections on Article Talk page. What you wrote as comments to your deletion "revert huge text addition in lead. Lead should only summarize content not introduce new content. Addition is also mostly unreferenced and biased. Relevant points may be included in the rest of the article in the appropriate sections" violates several wiki-policies:

1) in particular you wrote "Addition is also mostly unreferenced and biased" in your deletion comment. The proper way to address a concern like this is to NAME your specific objections and use this template: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Unreferenced

2) you wrote " Lead should only summarize content not introduce new content". It is apparent, that you did NOT read the rest of the article. Most of the points, that we added to the Intro, have been described in greater details below. Some details will be added later. The editors, who are working on this article, are still deciding on what to include. What you deleted IS written as a summary, without details, which are(will be) provided below.

In the meantime, you are welcome to provide criticism and suggestions (especially with good references) on the article talk page. BUT please be specific and detailed. If you write "biased" - you need to support your statement with a VERY DETAILED AND REFERENCED explanation.

Also, please read this policy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith . Please do not make assumptions, that other editors are idiots, who have no experience in the subject matter, or that they are deliberately spreading misinformation. It is especially surprising, that you made such irresponsible deletions after winning the Million Award.

  • I agree with Ita's removal here. This is far too specific for a general summary and makes the lead too long. The lead absolutely does not need to get into things like uranium in oceans, neutron embrittlement, use of hafnium, and production of tritium, which are not discussed in the rest of the article so this is not an appropriate summary. I further agree that this is excessive content about limitations of nuclear power for the lead and makes it unbalanced. The lead does not need a numbered list like this, and it is a straw man to indicate the limitations of "Meeting humankind's total current demand of 15 TW of power using only Uranium-235 fission process" when that's a far cry from merely building more nuclear power alongside renewables. Reywas92Talk 14:40, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Walter Tau: Thanks for reaching out. Regarding your comments:
- Wikipedia is freely editable by anyone. You (or anyone else) are not entitled to 2 weeks of exclusive editing anywhere. See WP:OWN and in particular point 5 of WP:OWNBEHAVIOR.
- Anyone can delete unreferenced statements, especially if they are controversial as the ones you added, see WP:UNSOURCED.
- Most of content you added in the lead is not present in the article. The lead should exclusively summarize content in the article, not introduce anything new, see MOS:LEAD. Moreover, the lead should be proportional to the article size. You doubled the size of the lead, which was already quite long before.
- As for whether I read the article, I was the one that nominated it for Good Article (WP:GA), so I not only read all of it multiple times and edited large sections of it, I also successfully went through a peer-review process on this article (see Talk:Nuclear_power/GA2).
- As Reywas92 pointed out already, your contributions are obviously biased as they are one-sided, suffer from straw-man arguments, and in general I think are based on a poor understanding of how economics and nuclear engineering works.
- Your contributions are full of original research and synthesis. This is not allowed on Wikipedia, see WP:OR. All statement (especially if controversial) should be directly cited from reliable sources and no personal "conclusions" should be added.
- Please refrain from accusing me of things I never said. I never called you an "idiot", and never said that you are spreading misinformation. You are accusing me of ad hominem attacks while I only commented on the content itself, never about you. I did (and still do) assume good faith, that is why I did not report you or do any other action that would be appropriate in case of vandalism. We are having a normal discussion regarding the contents.
- Please sign your comments in talk pages by adding ~~~~ at the end of your comment. That makes it easier to attribute comments.
Thank you again for engaging in the discussion. --Ita140188 (talk) 09:01, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you all for your comments. Even though I have made many edits on wiki, I stayed away from controvercial topics in the past, and I am still not aware of all wiki-policies: e.g., I have not ran into WP:OWN issues before.
I know, it is possible to create a draft article on wiki. Is it possible to create a draft for improving an existing article, so that we do not manipulate the existing text until the updated draft is ready?
Walter Tau (talk) 12:55, 11 October 2024 (UTC) Walter Tau[reply]
You can copy the article to your own sandbox User:Walter Tau/sandbox or create a new sandbox (such as User:Walter Tau/sandbox2 or even User:Walter Tau/Nuclear power) and make changes there if you want. Ita140188 (talk) 20:38, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment

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Hi. As you added a Multiple Issues notice on this article, I would be grateful if you could review the comments I have made on its Talk page

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Dispatchability of VRE

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Hi Ita, regarding our edits in Dispatchable generation here, I generally agree that VRE is not dispatchable, as they were not controllable. Until recently, solar and wind facilities could usually produce at the limit of what was supplied to them, because the grid could absorb it all. Then production increased for a number of years, and they were sometimes curtailed due to grid limits or zero price, and sometimes the reduction happens in minutes because they are easily turned off. The new situation has now expanded so that they ramp up just as quickly in some markets; several gigawatts in less than 5 minutes when market-price increases from zero to above marginal cost. I have no reference - yet, but it's a matter of time.

Thursday's ramp-up was 1.3 GW wind in 15 minutes, and 300 MW solar in 10 minutes, at 17:00 when crossing up again over zero price. It happens a lot due to pricing (not wind gusts or clouds), and shows that wind&solar can controllably ramp up quickly again after curtailment, if demand and energy input fits - that's almost dispatchable. See image at https://ibb.co/hRf4xNn6 , and check the numbers at https://emd.dk/el/ . This will happen in more markets around the world as VRE increases, and subsidies fade. TGCP (talk) 19:38, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That's not what dispatchable mean. They can be curtailed, but they will never produce more than their current availability. The grid operator cannot tell a solar plant to produce energy at night, and cannot tell a wind turbine to produce if there is no wind. Curtailment and dispatchability are not the same thing. Curtailment is actually an issue with these sources, not a feature. It is a huge problem for solar producers (as a matter of fact, I work exactly on this, curtailment events prediction for utility-scale solar plants). It is the number one liability for commercial solar plants in many markets. In your example case, they can ramp up fast because they were curtailed in the first place. Also solar and wind plants usually enter the market with zero marginal price, so curtailment is mostly driven by grid constraints, not economic consideration (it costs nothing to produce solar power once the plant is in place) Ita140188 (talk) 20:20, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I know this example is a consequence of curtailment. In Denmark, the curtailment is much more due to zero market price, and less due to grid constraints. As other markets develop in the same direction Denmark has, they too will experience this. Solar and wind plants are sometimes dispatched for ramp-up by the grid operator (Energinet.dk) as just another generator: that's the blue line on https://emd.dk/el/ , mFRR example here.
My point is that this ramp-up already happens so many times per year just after zero market price, that the general ability to ramp up again approaches that of an old coal power plant on its last legs - it's often out because of failing equiment. During the 2022 European drought, some coal plants in Germany could not run because they got no coal via the rivers.
Whether the power plant lacks fuel or equipment, it is unable to ramp up, and cannot be dispatched. But if fuel is available, it can be dispatched. There is still a principal difference between VRE and coal, but in practice, the difference becomes smaller and smaller. This becomes more clear as more solar plants internalize batteries, and as such, are actually able to produce energy at night (and other grid services) demanded by grid operators. TGCP (talk) 22:19, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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