Template talk:First ladies of the United States navbox

Template:First ladies of the United States navbox is permanently protected from editing as it is a heavily used or highly visible template. Substantial changes should first be proposed and discussed here on this page. If the proposal is uncontroversial or has been discussed and is supported by consensus, editors may use {{edit template-protected}} to notify an administrator or template editor to make the requested edit. Usually, any contributor may edit the template's documentation to add usage notes or categories.

Any contributor may edit the template's sandbox. This template does not have a testcases subpage. You can create the testcases subpage here.

Navbox layout feedback

Looking for feedback on the layout of the template. Please see the version here which uses {{Navigation with image}} and the other version there which uses the {{Dynamic navigation box with image}}. Thanks. — MrDolomite • Talk 06:42, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Someone Please Fix This!

Please! The Nancy Reagan page looks pretty bad! Happyme22 01:45, 14 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Martha Jefferson should be removed

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To anyone who can edit this template (currently protected because it is part of the protected Pat Nixon page): The template includes Thomas Jefferson's wife Martha; in the words of her own Wikipedia article, "She never became First Lady of the United States because she died long before her husband was elected to the presidency." Other presidential wives who died before their husbands became president, such as Rachel Jackson, are excluded from the list, and Martha Jefferson should be likewise. --Jfruh (talk) 16:25, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've changed it back to Martha Jefferson Randolph, which is what is was until recently. --- RockMFR 19:25, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent! Thanks. --Jfruh (talk) 20:04, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Template-protected edit request on 9 November 2016

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Please add Melania Trump (elect) to the list.- CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 23:56, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Not done for now. ~~Per November 2008 edits, we should probably follow a similar example. It's not official until January.~~ @Champion: Redacting previous. Can you ping Wikipedia talk:WikiProject United States or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics/American politics for a second opinion perhaps? If there's no reply or opposition, can add it then. — Andy W. (talk) 01:08, 10 November 2016 (UTC) 01:11, 10 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Champion: and @Andy M. Wang: – instead of adding Melania Trump (elect), why not add it as (designee)? CookieMonster755 𝚨-𝛀 02:35, 27 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Template-protected edit request on January 20, 2017

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Could somebody who has the ability to edit this template add Melania Trump now that she is First Lady. -- Millionsandbillions (talk) 20:41, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Done -- John of Reading (talk) 20:46, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Edits requested

The image is of the Presidential seal, likely not applicable to this page. And the template is far too small for its state to be collapsed, a change to autocollapse seems appropriate. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:28, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Template-protected edit request on 25 July 2018

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(numbered) instead of * (bullet points) and the years served in brackets next to each First Lady similar to the list of presidents navbox. Much neater and informative that way than just all the names clumped together. 82.40.107.245 (talk) 00:30, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit template-protected}} template. - FlightTime (open channel) 00:37, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hillary

Shouldn't Hillary be titled Hillary Rodham Clinton since that was the name she was predominate known by as First Lady? CookieMonster755 ✉

No. A Rfc was held & the result was to use Hillary Clinton. GoodDay (talk) 01:23, 12 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

that was only for the MAIN ARTICLE, GoodDay. She was known with Rodham in her name during her time as First Lady. CookieMonster755 ✉ 23:46, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's the case for all the articles, we go with Hillary Clinton. GoodDay (talk) 23:48, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! :) CookieMonster755 ✉ 23:53, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Remove the prez seal.

The presidential seal should be removed. This article is about the first ladies, not the presidents. GoodDay (talk) 01:23, 12 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Template-protected edit request on 20 January 2021

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Add "Jill Biden" after "Melania Trump", as Joe Biden has officially been inaugurated and is now the current President of the United States. Paintspot Infez (talk) 17:34, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:56, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Template-protected edit request on 20 January 2021 (2)

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Add Jill Biden to the template. Woko Sapien (talk) 17:55, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:56, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Template-protected edit request on 21 January 2021 (3)

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Remove the presidential seal from the template as these are the first ladies, not the US presidents. GoodDay (talk) 20:46, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit template-protected}} template. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:42, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Template-protected edit request on 10 January 2023

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See also my sandbox (option A) for the changes I'm proposing:

Remove the seal image per WP:NAVIMAGES (both Template:US presidents and Template:US vice presidents had their seals removed under this rule)
Create a group for the first ladies list, with group name linking directly to First Lady of the United States
Add a link to Hillary Clinton's tenure under her main link
Create a second group for related articles (Bibliography of United States presidential spouses and first ladies, First family of the United States, List of First Lady of the United States firsts, List of memoirs by first ladies of the United States, First Ladies National Historic Site)
Either remove First Ladies: Influence & Image, or add a link to The First Lady (American TV series). Both are TV series about the first ladies, I think we should either include both, or preferably neither as this navbox could get long if/when more series about FLOTUS are made
Add a link to Category:First ladies of the United States in the footer. Woko Sapien (talk) 16:10, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is normally a good idea to discuss changes before using the {{editprotected}} template. Personally I support most of these but question number 2 because it duplicates the titles of the navbox, and takes up valuable space — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:41, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Let me know what you think of option B. It maximizes space by removing the seal image as well as by not having a group name. It doesn't have the category link, but does have all the related links stored nicely in the footer. Woko Sapien (talk) 22:02, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Much better

— Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:57, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The category link could be included after the NHS link in the footer. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 02:58, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Completed (to option B). P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 12:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Template-protected edit request on 20 January 2025

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Melania Trump should be given a second entry on this template, following Biden. We do the same for Frances Cleveland. GoodDay (talk) 23:30, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Done Sohom (talk) 01:05, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Template-protected edit request on 21 January 2025

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Rename the template to Template:US first ladies to (A) better harmonize with the template display title of First ladies of the United States and (B) be in compliance with MOS:JOBTITLES. See Template:US second ladies and gentlemen as an example. Woko Sapien (talk) 20:33, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:20, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Template-protected edit request on 30 July 2025

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Add National First Ladies Day as First Ladies Day to 'below' just before the category listing. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:49, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit template-protected}} template. This day was not created by legislation. How is it different from National Bagel Day or National Cute Puppy Day? – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:44, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Jonesey95, and thanks for the concern. Will alert the creator and author of the page, Willthacheerleader18, who would have much more information on the holiday (I just learned about the it yesterday from reading the article). What makes it different than 'National Coffee and Donut Day' and the rest is that its leadership and supporters are either descendants of American first ladies or closely associated with them and their legacy. At least one First Lady gave her support to the day and its purpose. Giving those factors due weight, the article and topic seem related enough to this navbox to merit inclusion. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:17, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So the people who created the day are fluffing up their ancestors? Nice. I won't oppose it strenuously, but it doesn't seem much different from other fluff special days. Maybe a better analogy is National First Responders Day or National Doctors' Day. Worthy people all, but a Wikipedia article? (At least the second one got the possessive apostrophe right.) – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:46, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Randy Kryn and Jonesey95! I apologize for not seeing this conversation until just now. I would love for this holiday to be included in the template, as it is entirely centered on U.S. First Ladies, but also understand if it is not an established enough event to be included. The holiday is not yet a federal holiday, although it appears the commission created for it is pushing for that. But as far as I can tell, the earliest celebrations of this day started within the last five years, so it is a newer celebration and not a lot of literature has been written about it. I agree with Randy Kryn that it is certainly not comparable to a donut day.. and one of the sources states that U.S. First Lady Rosalynn Carter acknowledged and offered her support for the holiday in a letter that is now housed at the First Ladies Historic Site. But I also agree with Jonesey95 that it may be more comparable to something like National First Responders Day. I think it may become more official than that, but obviously Wikipedia isn't for assumptions and predictions. All in all, I think it could be great to add to the template, but understand if that is not the consensus. -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 14:17, 4 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Duplicate linking

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There currently are two links each for Frances Cleveland and Melania Trump. This linking is needlessly repetitive. I'm guessing their double mentions within the template is because of them serving non-consecutive terms as First Ladies, but either way they only need one link per mention. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 21:30, 11 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Disagree. Removing the second link would create two dark entries and either draw more attention to them because of this or cause someone to remove both non-links. Navbox entries are usually linked and those that are not are assumed to not have an article. Also see {{Presidents of the United States}} where their husbands are appropriately listed and linked twice. Randy Kryn (talk) 04:42, 12 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit template-protected}} template. I also object to this change. We list their spouses as separate presidents because they had non-consecutive terms. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:32, 12 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Would either of you oppose numbering each FLOTUS instead within the navbox while giving two numbers for these particular women? That would mean they only have to get listed once without any double linking. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 03:13, 13 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

{{Presidents of the United States}} includes numbers because it is an elective office and the numbers are official (i.e. Trump is legally 45 and 47). The First Ladies, on the other hand, are not elected, so have no official or formal numbering system. The present state of the navbox seems easily understandable to readers who can figure out pretty quickly that Frances Cleveland and Melania Trump have gone in and out of first ladyhood without needing to confuse the navbox flow by placing Jill Biden last on the list, which is what would happen under your proposed numbering system. That's my take on this anyway. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:40, 13 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]