Template talk:Christian Identity sidebar

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Who to include

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I removed some recent additions (and a couple of my original inclusions) on the basis that this template should cover "key" (notable) groups, individuals, and concepts of CI. It should exclude individuals, groups, etc, that are only marginally related. For example, Louis Beam. While Beam did evidently become part of Aryan Nations, it was not until later in life, and we really have no idea what his CI beliefs were. He's not a notable individual as far as CI is concerned, and none of the major published works on CI mention him (that I'm aware of - and I have quite a few books on the subject including Barkun, Quarles, Gribben, Kaplan, and others). Those who are not notable are still accessible via the CI category. We don't have reproduce the entire category in the template. ButlerBlog (talk) 16:06, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

August Kreis

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@Butlerblog I don't think we should be including people in a sidebar when the article does not mention a single time the concept of the sidebar. We shouldn't be including every person who has ever been affiliated with a group that was affiliated with Christian Identity, per WP:SIDEBAR they are supposed to be selective, and if you look at his article it's not verified.PARAKANYAA (talk) 04:36, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that not every person should be included (as my edit history of the template would indicate), but Aryan Nations is clearly a Christian Identity organization, Kries is a key figure in AN in the power struggle following Butler's demise. AN is a subcategory of CI in our categorization (as it should be), and AN is mentioned in the article and listed in the sidebar. ButlerBlog (talk) 04:40, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It's still not listed in Kries's article. Having to click to another article to verify why someone belongs in a template means they should not be in the template. Christian Identity was also not the sole ideological influence on Aryan Nations, they were far more neo-Nazi oriented. On the other hand, adding it seems easier than arguing about it, and sources that describe him as one are around. So I am just going to add it to his article so it verifies and then put him back. PARAKANYAA (talk) 04:50, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
did that PARAKANYAA (talk) 04:56, 31 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Tightening the focus

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For a while now I have been rethinking my position on what I said about inclusion of August Kreis above. Now, with what seems to be an explosion of political sidebar templates that are, IMO, over-done, bloated, and not very useful, I have really been considering what's in this particular template.

I would change from my position above to remove August Kries. While what I noted about him above is certainly true, the AN was in severe decline when he took over and he's not all that notable in various works on CI. Similarly, Kenneth Goff, Frederick Haberman, Willie Ray Lampley, and Gordon Winrod are all minor players who are not generally discussed in more broad works on the topic, both historical/formation years as well as current. I also proposed Gerald Burton Winrod for removal, but I could see going either way there. He's not found in the discussions of the emergence of CI as prominently as other figures, but he might seem to fit. Another that I could go either way on was Gerald L. K. Smith. He was not a CI adherent himself, but the major players were in his orbit and utilized his network. Similar thoughts for organizations - all minor players: 11th Hour Remnant Messenger, Assembly of Christian Soldiers, Aryan Republican Army, National Emancipation of our White Seed, and White Patriot Party. None of these figure in all that prominently.

Removing these tightens up the focus of the series much better. All the removed are still categorized in Category:Christian Identity and its child cats. What I'd like to see in this template is a tightly focused series of the key players in the formation and emergence of Christian Identity, and its growth. I don't want to see it become a dumping ground for every CI article (like what is happening in other political sidebars). Further, most of the articles I'm proposing for removal are currently low grade assessments and I don't actually see most of them moving beyond that, which speaks to their usefulness for the series.

You can review the proposed version against the current version here: Template:Christian Identity sidebar/testcases ButlerBlog (talk) 14:40, 20 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to me. PARAKANYAA (talk) 16:38, 20 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Cool - thanks for weighing in @PARAKANYAA. Yours was the input I was looking for! ButlerBlog (talk) 17:55, 20 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]