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The B&W photo of 1965 cannot be correct. The infobox says "Demolished: 1948" and also "Rebuilt: 1986". So, in 1965 there was nothing there! FredTC (talk) 09:38, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I directly translated image caption from Thai Wikipedia and was not aware of the incorrect year in the photo. After doing my research, I found that it was taken in 1879, as stated in a reliable source ([1]). Thank you for pointing that out. ManoiCMU (talk) 15:06, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@ManoiCMU Looking at the source you mentioned, I see:
The Tha Phae gate that you see today is The Chiang Mai Municipality and the Department of Fine Arts have jointly built a new one. In 1985, based on historical and archaeological evidence, along with a photograph of a gate of Chiang Mai, which was taken in 1879.
So, it says "a gate of Chiang Mai", and does not say "Tha Phae Gate". Looking at photo's of the other gates I found the one I added to this discussion. My conclusion is therefore that the photo in the article has been given the wrong name. --FredTC (talk) 05:05, 26 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I don’t think the photo in the article is incorrect. Many sources verify that the image shows the original Tha Phae Gate. Of course, the structure of the old city wall may have resembled the Chiang Mai Gate, but I believe the original Tha Phae Gate might have had a similar design to that lesser-known gate.
The real problem seems to be the year the photograph was taken. Different sources give conflicting dates:
Nation TV Thailand describes it as taken in 1965 (source)
Another blog (Bloggang) gives 1941, credited to a Facebook user (link).
Because of these conflicting dates, it’s difficult to determine which is most accurate. We probably need to do more research with other Thai editors to verify the correct date and provenance of the photo.
I did a Google search for images with "tha phae gate" which gave among many others this one. The website opens with a B&W image looking much like the present Tha Phae Gate. Scrolling down, the first color image shows a Tha Phae Gate "built in 1966 and demolished in 1985" being a lookalike of Chiang Mai Gate. A lot more information is at that website. --FredTC (talk) 10:35, 26 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
With my remark of 10:35, 26 October 2025 I also say "the name is not wrong" like I did with my remark of 05:05, 26 October 2025. --FredTC (talk) 00:58, 27 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the ping. I spent more time than I planned digging into this, and found that the photo was published in the book Seen: Architectural Forms of Northern Siam and Old Siamese Fortifications by Sumet Jumsai, and was noted to have been taken around 1949, according to this Fine Arts Department research report.[2]
In any case, the article and infobox currently quite inadequately explain the gate's 20th-century history. The most comprehensive source that I could quickly find was this article from Lanner.[3] It's a modern news site that doesn't seem to be particularly established, but it appears the author did their research. Here's the basic timeline that I could gather:
The gate as seen in the picture was probably rebuilt sometime in the 20th century.
According to some blogs and articles (which seem to have all copy pasted from the same source), the old city walls and gates were demolished in 1948. I haven't been able to corroborate the date. The infobox (presumably copied from the Thai Wikipedia) seems to assume that the gate was also demolished that year, though this is likely incorrect.
The gate was restored/renovated from 1966–1967. The project head and designer was ทองหยด สุวรรณประเทศ, municipal engineer.
The FAD book notes that in September 1967, heavy rain damaged the Chang Phueak and Suan Dok gates, which had also been recently restored, necessitating repairs. These undated photos[4][5] show the Tha Phae Gate with storm damage. Probably the same event?
This Tha Phae Gate was demolished and rebuilt in 1985/86.
@Paul 012 — Thank you for your thorough research and fact-checking. If you don’t mind, please feel free to update the article based on what you’ve found. Thanks again for your help! ManoiCMU (talk) 15:35, 29 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Paul 012 Thank you for sharing the Lanner source ....it’s very helpful. The author’s research and discussion about the controversy surrounding the photograph (now featured in this article) provide valuable context. Even historians seem uncertain about this image. The Fine Arts Department research report you found notes that the photo was taken around 1949. Should I update the image date to 1949? I have to admit, after reading all these sources, I’m still a bit puzzled 55555 it’s quite a complex topic! ManoiCMU (talk) 18:21, 6 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
