Talk:Syngman Rhee

  1. Home
  2. Wiki

Requested move

[edit]
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Calidum Talk To Me 04:49, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]


Syngman Rhee → I SeungmanI Seungman – We should change the argument name to I Seungman, because: His biggest achievement is that he was the first president of the South Korea. And there are used the Korean style notation which put family name first on many of South Koreans' arguments including both historical persons (e.g. Yi Sun-sin) and contemporary persons (see Category:Presidents of South Korea) Sure, he himself used the U.S. style notation which put family name later outside Korea. But, it is not enough reason to use the U.S. style notation. NiceDay (talk) 00:48, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strongly Oppose The move goes against virtually every single article titling convention. Firstly, concerning the order of his name, WP:NCKO holds that 'Unless the subject is known to prefer otherwise, family name should be written first,' and, as the requester pointed out, the subject preferred using his name in the American style. The current form is also the WP:COMMONNAME of the subject, as shown by virtually all of the English-language sources referenced in the article, including Encyclopædia Britannica and CNN. There's also no reason to change the Romanization of his name, as the two policies hold for this case as well. Being the first president of South Korea is really no reason to change the article title. KJ «Click Here» 01:59, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose clearly WP:UE this person has an English-form name, and uses it in English. We should therefore use English, not systematic romanized Korean, which is formulaic and dependent on the romanization standard used, instead of what is used in actuality. -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 05:50, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment: I think that it is cultural imperialism to denote South Koreans' name by U.S. style which writes family name back. This imperialism is conquered in many of Koreans' argument in en.wikipedia. So we should also conquere it in this argument. NiceDay (talk) 08:27, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Maybe it is, but changing Wikipedia article titles is not the place to wage a battle against such imperialism if that is your calling. Go fight to have English-language sources change their common name for the subject and then change the title here. Until then, it's original research (the RR spelling of his name is basically absent from sources) barring a new guideline on the subject. —  AjaxSmack  08:51, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Firstly, it's doubtful that using an English name of a subject (who actually preferred to use the English form of his name), in the English-version of Wikipedia, with clearly established English sources, is cultural imperialism. Secondly, even if that is somehow the case, it's hardly a viable argument to make the name change. Both Wikiproject Korea and general Wikipedia's policies are clear that the titling that should be used in this case is the present form. Unless the policies themselves are being changed, in which case this is the wrong place to do so, the name cannot possibly be changed. KJ «Click Here» 08:44, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • It is clearly not cultural imperialism to use the current name, since the person himself uses this spelling. Rather it is cultural imperialism to impose a spelling that the person himself does not use onto him. -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 04:52, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose this is just one of those exceptions to standard romanization systems, such as Tchaikovsky and Chiang Kai Shek In ictu oculi (talk) 03:43, 3 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The Signature

[edit]

I think the signature is fake. First of all, it's in English. Second of all, it is pure black on a clear background. That may need fixing... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.160.197.124 (talk) 03:07, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]


He was educated at Harvard (MA) and Princeton (PhD) so I assume he had no trouble writing in cursive script. As for the Korean name I think the Korean name should read "이승만" instead of "리승만". The Korean version of this page uses 이 instead of 리: https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EC%9D%B4%EC%8A%B9%EB%A7%8C — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.137.121.253 (talk) 01:26, 18 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Rhee Syngman

[edit]

It doesn't say anywhere in the article that his actual name is Rhee Syngman. Should it be added somewhere that his family name is "Rhee" and his given name is "Syngman"? Usually pages about persons from East Asia mention that to avoid confusion by Western readers. megamalx (talk) 06:04, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Why is it usual to call him Syngman Rhee in English, and not Rhee Syngman? It is usual to call the former North Korean president Kim Il-sung, and not Il-sung Kim. Also in other East Asian countries it is usual to put the family name before the given name. --Oddeivind (talk) 23:30, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Malcolmmwa and Oddeivind:If see Template:Presidents of South Korea, only Syngman Rhee is written "Given name Family name". --ㅂㄱㅇ (talk) 07:08, 17 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Enough already, He wanted his name is western naming convention order. Given name first and last name last. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.108.150.141 (talk) 17:37, 11 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The article (template) should not say at the top that Western name order is used, because it's not, it's only used for the topic of the article. 74.65.224.183 (talk) 21:37, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Syngman Rhee. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:58, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No mention of the tens and hundreds of thousands he killed?

[edit]

Under 350000 people were killed under rhee. Hong kuslauski (talk) 13:34, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Quoting the article:
"Early on in his presidency, his government put down a communist uprising on Jeju Island, and the Mungyeong and Bodo League massacres were committed against suspected communist sympathisers, leaving at least 100,000 people dead." Nakonana (talk) 16:52, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Li Chengwan" listed at Redirects for discussion

[edit]

The redirect Li Chengwan has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 10 § Li Chengwan until a consensus is reached. 747pilot (talk) 23:11, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Lǐ Chéngwǎn" listed at Redirects for discussion

[edit]

The redirect Lǐ Chéngwǎn has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 10 § Lǐ Chéngwǎn until a consensus is reached. 747pilot (talk) 23:11, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hawaii

[edit]

I just watched this interesting Korean-language KBS documentary from 2008 [1] that had interviews of people who knew Rhee in Hawaii. The interviews themselves are mostly in English, you can flip around if you're interested. Multiple interviewees allege that Rhee was a bully in the Korean community, and that he polarized it by creating factions and demanding total loyalty from his followers. According to them, the polarization became so bad that violence was common. One interviewee alleges that Rhee ordered the assassination of her father.

We'd need to find RS about it if we want to include; I haven't looked it up (and probably won't for a while) but I wouldn't be surprised if sources existed. The person who conducted the interviews was a fluent English speaker and I think a historian. toobigtokale (talk) 23:03, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Biography

[edit]

Just created this article Syngman Rhee and Kim Ku. IMO, if you speak Korean, this biography is an essential piece of reading on Rhee. I think ideally Rhee's article should cite this biography much more. Imo Western writings on Rhee are often high-level or dated. This biography covers even minor anecdotes from the lives of both figures, and analyzes their writings, including personal letters and documents, in depth and chronologically. 211.43.120.242 (talk) 06:05, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As a side note, I think the sparsity of mentions of Kim Ku on Rhee's article is a sign that there is much missing from it. Much of Rhee and Kim's careers were begrudgingly intertwined, and both figures are giants in South Korean history. 211.43.120.242 (talk) 06:27, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To be fair to Syngman Rhee

[edit]

To do justice to Syngman Rhee, I think we should provide a fair, academic, and balanced evaluation of his regime. Therefore, I added the following paragraph: " As the first presidency of South Korea, Rhee's government laid the groundwork for a liberal and democratic republic. Confronted with grave internal challenges and external threats, the nascent Republic of Korea joined the liberal international order under his leadership in the aftermath of the Korean War. It also began its initial transformation into a developing nation. As a fledling liberal democracy, Rhee's government revealed poliitical and institutional limitations,..." Songbirdrhymes (talk) 01:05, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Here's why you're being reverted:
  1. On Wikipedia, claims need WP:RELIABLESOURCEs. You just insist this is what scholars believe but don't really have any sources to point to to support your claims.
  2. It's not our job to "do justice" to anyone; we're supposed to present, without our own opinions or regardless of our personal feelings towards the subject, what scholars think.
  3. Your writing uses overly emotional/flowery language. Confronted with grave internal challenges and external threats, the nascent This portrays South Korea/Rhee's administration as an underdog fighting its way upwards, as if we're supposed to feel sympathetic towards it. We are an encyclopedia; we do not aim to make people feel sympathetic to anything.
  4. It also began its initial transformation into a developing nation. this doesn't say much; every country transforms and develops. fledling same problem with being overly emotional
I am not editing out of personal bias here; I am trying to prevent you from inserting bad writing into the article. It's not properly supported by sources and it's overly flowery. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 01:12, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I will provide the sources. By the way what sources are provided for the following statement? "As president of South Korea, Rhee's government was characterised by authoritarianism, limited economic development, and in the late 1950s growing political instability and public opposition to his rule."? Links are no more than general definitions of the terms. Do you think it is supported with historican evidence? This is what you call a bad writing without reference. Songbirdrhymes (talk) 01:44, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hyperlinks for the terms such as "Authoritarianism", "Limited economic development," "Political instabilty," "public opposition"in this statement are mere definitions, not "reliable sources." That's why I think this statement is so biased and politicized, not to mention non-academic. Songbirdrhymes (talk) 01:48, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
WP:LEADCITE the claims in the lead are already supported by the body of the article. Your changes are much more flowery and are not supported by the body.
btw where are the sources you promised grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 01:56, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Also, your accusations of bad faith against me are WP:TENDENTIOUS and against Wikipedia policy. Do not accuse me or others of bias or trying to "monopolize the private sector" or whatever gibberish again. Doing so will very likely get you blocked. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 01:14, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Who are you? What authority do you have in the public domain? What gibberish? You should block yourself. Songbirdrhymes (talk) 01:49, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have any authority, but when you violate the site's rules the admins who do have authority block you. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 01:55, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The admins? A big brother? What a crazy world! Songbirdrhymes (talk) 07:59, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You're the type of person who'll break laws IRL and them blame others for getting arrested. Policies were clearly explained to you and you continue to violate them grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 09:10, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You didn't address the tone issue... Also there's some grammar and spelling errors in there. grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 02:21, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Who are you? What authority do you have? Do you think the entry as is makes any sense? You are an authoritarian with a sense of democracy! You are waking an edit war. Songbirdrhymes (talk) 07:53, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Now this is devolving to personal attacks and ranting grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 09:08, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Grammar and spelling issues can be easily solved! Why do you erase the whole thing? Why do you think you have the right to do so? What do you know about Korean history? Songbirdrhymes (talk) 07:58, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Tone is much more important grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 09:08, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There was no grammar issue! Why are you being so disingenuous? Songbirdrhymes (talk) 08:04, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Now I am blocked by the admins? Okay! I will write about this absurdity in a column for a legacy media! Why is Wikipedia so cliquish and close-minded? Songbirdrhymes (talk) 08:06, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
If you do I really hope you show them your conduct here. Like how you insulted people over and over, ignored basic instructions until I asked you for like the 5th time to post on the talk page, spammed comments over and over, etc. Truly you are being persecuted and did nothing wrong grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 09:07, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I have never insulted anyone! I have tried to redress the balance by giving ojbective facts to remedy the flaws of the original entry. Who would trust Wikipeida? Songbirdrhymes (talk) 09:23, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Talk:Syngman Rhee#c-Songbirdrhymes-20251025075300-Grapesurgeon-20251025022100 No insults? grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 09:30, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
None sense! Songbirdrhymes (talk) 08:16, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]