Talk:Psychoanalysis

  1. Home
  2. Wiki
Article Collaboration and Improvement DriveThis article was on the Article Collaboration and Improvement Drive for the week of October 17, 2007.

The lede

[edit]

@L'durre vital: "Psychoanalysis is a set of theories and techniques of research that examine the unconscious in order to integrate the discovered content into consciousness. Based on dream interpretation, psychoanalysis is also a method for the treatment of mental disorders." Does not follow MOS, has numerous weasel words, and text is hard to understand and "integrate the discovered content into consciousness" isn't a good description. Des Vallee (talk) 00:43, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@L'durre vital: Psychoanalysis is not used in neuroscience and isn't used in that field, and it's assumptions particularly about sexuality and behavior has been used to justify things such as conversion therapy (such as human sexuality being taught). The vast majority of neuroscientists have found it's assumptions on the unconscious to be false, and it's claims about adolescent development as not reality. One source does outweigh the massive consensus of neuroscientists. Des Vallee (talk) 14:48, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The field of ‘neuro-psychoanalysis’ is certainly not a suitable example for the field of neurology. Since you mention the majority of neurologists (how they think about Freud) : Do you have a decent source? Wondertreetime (talk) 15:56, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Wondertreetime: (Sánchez, professor of Neuroscience) The three neuroscience journals with higher impact factor are Nature Reviews Neuroscience, Nature Neuroscience and Annual Review of Neuroscience. No article on neuropsychoanalysis has ever been published in any of the aforementioned journals. Papers on neuropsychoanalysis are rarely published in general journals of psychology or neuroscience. Works on the matter are usually found in a single journal: Neuropsychoanalysis. and the case against neuropsychoanalysis a peer reviewed paper providing detailed examples of it failing to be obtain results. Des Vallee (talk) 19:30, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Des Vallee: What is ONE of the "providing detailed examples"? According to Freud, consciousness cannot be ‘explained’ from physiological contexts; he settled the mind-body problem by describing mind and body as the ‘two end points of our knowledge’, between which anything can be inserted. At least neuro-psychoanalysis should be mentioned, because it deals with mind-body problem (refered to Freud) AND have proven his neurlogical theses that imprinting takes place in specialised parts of brain, inserted this finding between the two "endpoints". --L'durre vital (talk) 21:51, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The paper you linked promises a thorough discussion of important arguments ‘for’ and ‘against’, so this should also be included as a source in the introduction.--L'durre vital (talk) 21:59, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The full article found that neuropsychoanalysis predictions and usefulness in neuroscience didn't align with brain function, or were not provable. Freud did not solve the mind-body problem, partially because it intersects with philosophy does not have correct answer and also because papers on the subject are still written today, with other proposals. Des Vallee (talk) 22:46, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The case against neuropsychoanalyse therefore aims to compile a series of arguments against this field of research in order to prevent, and ideally reverse, its increasing spread. In your opinion, what is the central argument of neurpsychoanalysis? What does the author of the paper put forward against? Wondertreetime (talk) 14:07, 19 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Since neurology has discovered areas in the brain that store experience by means of neuronal imprinting, it has proven Freud's thesis in this regard. I don't understand why you claim the opposite. --L'durre vital (talk) 23:39, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Freud was not the first person to propose imprinting. moreover Freud's concept of imprinting has never been proven, the "Id," "Ego" and "Superego" has never been shown to have never been shown to have specific brain regions that activate, or tangible physiology. Imprinting wasn't first described by Freud, it was Konrad Lorenz who did so. Des Vallee (talk) 13:47, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
‘Freud was not the first to propose imprinting.’
Of course not; the concept is as old as Plato's idea of 'writing on tabula rasa'. However, Freud was the first to think about it in the context of brain neurology; his idea of ‘how’ the neurons store experience (through "a permanent change after an event") has been proven. By Lorenz you mean the imprinting experiments of the chick superego, which he undertook at Freud's suggestion. --L'durre vital (talk) 17:43, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You saying this doesn't go and show psychoanalysis has ever been accepted widely in neuroscience. Neuron activation, and neuron rewiring isn't based off permanent change, neurons are constantly rewiring and can be rewired in completely novel ways at any time, and Freud's model of the brain isn't how it is wired. The superego has never been demonstrated to exist in the brain. And Lorenz was not a psychoanalysist, nor psychologist. Unless you have sources demonstrating against this, this statement is mute. Des Vallee (talk) 22:14, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

'The fact that you say this is not proof that psychoanalysis has ever been widely accepted in the neurosciences.' Of course not; neuroscientists study neurons, not dreams per fre associations. 'neurons are constantly rewiring and can be rewired in completely novel ways at any time' What you say applies to the neuronal activity of conscious thought (including the unconscious preliminary stages of processing sensory stimuli), but not, for example, to early childhood imprinting. These are hard-wired. If it were as you think, there would be no learning, no imprinting, no MEMORY. 'Lorenz was not a psychoanalysist, nor psychologist.' Right. But a connoisseur and admirer of Freud. What do you actually want? We hav no problem in the article, is'nt it?--L'durre vital (talk) 01:55, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Unless you have sources that can back up psychoanalysis is used in neurology, linking isn't WP:DUE. Des Vallee (talk) 02:45, 18 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Don't know any use in neurology; was never my intention. Known is that Freud was Neurologist, use findings of this kind, and had startet to create a neurological hypothese of how memory could work. But this is already documented. Ok, so far. L'durre vital (talk) 05:35, 18 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sources then should be shown here. Des Vallee (talk) 23:06, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]