Talk:List of musical works in unusual time signatures

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On {{time signature}}, the PEIS, and the section on multiple unusual time signatures

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This article has many, many uses of {{time signature}} which have already lead to hitting the post-expand include size limit twice. As the article continues expanding, it is projected to hit that limit again soon. At time of writing, it is at 2,048,471 of 2,097,152 bytes. The majority of uses of {{time signature}} are in the section on combined unusual signatures.

I have created two copies of the article: User:Wilhelm von Hindenburger/Timesig1 and User:Wilhelm_von_Hindenburger/Timesig2 to test a method for reducing the PEIS by separating the listed pieces into the sections on those time signatures, which should be smaller given that, although the name of the piece and composer are repeated more often, they are probably smaller than the PEIS of the {{time signature}} template. In addition, because numerators of 5 and 7 are already omitted, just going to their respective articles on Quintuple meter and Septuple meter, that will also reduce the size.

The first test of this, on Benjamin Britten's Diversions for Piano Left Hand and Orchestra, has successfully reduced the PEIS by about 5KB (four instances of {{time signature}}). If anyone wants to see the changes in size, they are on the talk page for the second test page: User talk:Wilhelm von Hindenburger/Timesig2. Wilh3lmTalk 13:51, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

After these tests showed success, I will be implementing this strategy on the main page. I will update with the PEIS as it goes. Revision 1145496362 had a PEIS of 2058305 bytes, the first revision after this test, revision 1146279847, has a PEIS of 2054375. I will be tracking effects here. Wilh3lmTalk 22:23, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Revision 1146279847:
    • Pieces moved: 1
    • Time signatures removed: 2 (this line is for 5/x, 7/x, and any non-unusual time signatures also listed in an entry in "Combined unusual signatures".)
    • Time signatures moved: 1
    • New PEIS: 2054375
    • PEIS reduction: 3930
  • Revision 1146283428:
    • Pieces moved: 3
    • Time signatures removed: 7
    • Time signatures moved: 5
    • New PEIS: 2038643
    • PEIS reduction: 15732
  • Revision 1146368324:
    • Pieces moved: 1
    • Time signatures removed: 5
    • Time signatures moved: 1
    • New PEIS: 2030777
    • PEIS reduction: 7866
  • Revision 1146613681
    • Pieces moved: 1
    • Time signatures removed: 3
    • Time signatures moved: 2
    • New PEIS: 2022911
    • PEIS reduction: 7866
    • Note: Two time signatures in the piece were already listed in both combined unusual signatures and in the respective section (counted as removed, along with 5/4 since it has its own section). One time signature was only in the combined section (counted as moved), and one was listed only in the time signature section, but the wrong one (13/8 instead of 13/16), which I fixed (counted as moved)
  • Revision 1146614661
    • Pieces moved: 1
    • Time signatures removed: 2
    • Time signatures moved: 2
    • New PEIS: 2017665
    • PEIS reduction: 5246
  • A number of intervening edits occurred, unrelated to reducing the PEIS. Their net effect was an increase in the PEIS to 2043952.
  • Revision 1158069796
    • Pieces moved: 1
    • Time signatures removed: 4
    • Time signatures moved: 14
    • New PEIS: 2026886
    • PEIS reduction: 17066
    • Note: Four time signatures involved required creating new sections, thus requiring one instance of {{time signature}}. One time signature has a numerator above 19 and thus the full time signature must still be stated.
  • Revision 1158413555
    • Pieces moved: 1
    • Time signatures removed: 3
    • Time signatures moved: 12
    • New PEIS: 2015075
    • PEIS reduction: 11811
    • Note: As before, six time signatures with large numerators must still be stated.
  • Due to edits in between, the PEIS expanded to 2032697.
  • Revision 1195695247
    • Pieces moved: 1 (set of 20 pieces)
    • Time signatures removed: 17
    • Time signatures moved: 48
    • New PEIS: 1953150
    • PEIS reduction: 79547
    • Note: see full diff for details.
  • Revision 1211082292
    • Pieces moved: 2
    • Time signatures removed: 7
    • Time signatures moved: 8
    • New PEIS: 1938725
    • PEIS reduction: 14425
    • Note: Four time signatures with large numerators must still be stated, two of them involving two uses of {{time signature}} because of how they are notated in the score, using the form X/Y(Z/[note value]).
  • Due to edits in between, the PEIS increased to 2076492
  • Revision 1241030918
    • Pieces moved: 1
    • Time signatures removed: 19
    • Time signatures moved: 19
    • New PEIS: 2024878
    • PEIS reduction: 51614
    • Note: One time signature required a new section.
    • Note 2: Because past me was bad at leaving an explanation of what he was doing, I misinterpreted "moved" and "removed" and originally had the wrong numbers. These have now been corrected. Wilh3lmTalk 22:43, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, to stop the software from whining about signatures every time, I will be collecting them here: Wilh3lmTalk 20:04, 1 June 2023 (UTC) Wilh3lmTalk 23:16, 3 June 2023 (UTC) Wilh3lmTalk 22:33, 14 January 2024 (UTC) Wilh3lmTalk 19:31, 29 February 2024 (UTC) Wilh3lmTalk 22:44, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

emme by phonon is part 71/160 71/40

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yes you read that right 47.154.103.3 (talk) 16:23, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

oops wasnt logged in I Drink Water n Cats (talk) 16:25, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was just yesterday watching a video by Shawn Crowder in which he and Phonon discuss this piece. At 5:18, Phonon begins explaining that he viewed a particular section as being in 17.75
10. Crowder then attempts to explain this time signature, but makes a major mistake in treating the 10 in the denominator as subdivisions of a quarter note instead of a whole note, instead producing 17.75
40, and then multiplying the numerator and denominator to get rid of the decimal, resulting in 71
160. However, I believe that Phonon himself stating the 17.75
10 would be a reliable source for its addition - the 5.2
4 and 3.2
4 also could be added. Wilh3lmTalk 11:15, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Toby Fox - Deltarune Chapter 4 - The Third Sanctuary

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This song has uh.... a lot of time signatures, including a part at the end in... 23/8? Not any articles on it yet, given the recent release of the game, but perhaps something to keep an eye out for as an addition to the article once it's talked about a bit more?

I don't even technically know if it qualifies. I'm not a specialist in musical theory, I'll admit, and don't fully understand all the requirements to fit on the page. But I figured I would bring it up as a topic of discussion for an addition either way. 2600:100C:A221:3B83:B4CD:99A9:66A4:C3A (talk) 00:05, 14 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The requirement is having a reliable source that states the time signatures it contains. Judging with your own ears is not a reliable source. musescore.com is primarily user-generated content and thus not reliable, except for officially licensed scores. Wilh3lmTalk 15:13, 1 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The Third Sanctuary - Time Signature Visualizer (Deltarune Ch.4)
would this work? it details each of the time signatures individually and counts them out 96.230.72.194 (talk) 12:36, 19 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This doesn't look like a reliable source. — Czello (music) 12:45, 19 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
what about it makes it unreliable? It doesn't seem to be inaccurate in any way, but if an officially licensed score would work better, that exists as well. Play Official version of The Third Sanctuary Sheet Music by Toby Fox for Piano | MuseScore.com 96.230.72.194 (talk) 13:03, 19 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
both are user-generated, and thus no more reliable than "trust me bro". if reliable sources cover them, then it can be added consarn (grave) (obituary) 13:05, 19 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The latter appears to be an officially licensed score. MuseScore.com started partnering with publishers to produce such official scores in 2021 and, as far as I can tell, the linked score is one of them. (Namely, it is the only result for "Third Sanctuary" when I filter for just "Official Scores"). Wilh3lmTalk 01:42, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
then it'd be primary, and thus still unusable for the purposes of this list. what we need are reliable, independent sources discussing the time signatures consarn (grave) (obituary) 13:30, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
From the policy you linked: "A primary source may be used on Wikipedia only to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge." In the case of a score, I wouldn't consider identifying the time signature on the page as specialized knowledge.
In addition, the article has for years been using published scores as primary sources without any issue, and I don't think it would ever cause one. There is also precedent in Archive 6. I agree with Nick that the score is not just reliable but preferred as a source. I have been contributing to this article for years, and have, when possible, sought to find the original score as my source. In 2021 there is also more precedent for accepting the score as a source. In addition, Jerome Kohl, the biggest contributor to this article (at time of writing) by edit count, also considered published scores to be the best source.
In short, using the score as a primary source for its time signatures has never been a problem, and several editors, including two of the biggest contributors to the article, have also agreed on this. Wilh3lmTalk 15:55, 24 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Diamond Eyes - Deftones

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Most of it is in 11/8. Would be cool to add Zaikikomada (talk) 18:23, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a reliable source for it? Wilh3lmTalk 00:50, 28 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Strong One (Masked Man)

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I've heard that this song from Mother 3 has 29/16 along with a lot of tempo changes, does it count? 108.178.85.196 (talk) 16:21, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

As I understand it, it is in 4/4 with lots of tempo changes, often approximated by 29/16. However, any interpretation would require a reliable source in order to be included on the page. Wilh3lmTalk 01:51, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
this theme is definitely a strange case, in that there seems to be no actual consensus on its signature. the theories tossed so far have been
  • 29/16
  • 29/16-ish
  • 71907/40120
  • uhhhhhhh
  • 4/4 but the tempo changes every beat (this one is technically the closest to correct per gba jank)
but yeah, without reliable sources backing the info up, there really isn't much we can do. as is, i found nothing consarn (grave) (obituary) 13:36, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]