Talk:Iran–Israel relations

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Destruction of Israel in Iranian policy

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The Islamic Republic of Iran's foreign policy doctrine includes calling for the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state.[135][undue weight? – discuss] This position emerged from the 1979 Islamic Revolution, which transformed Iran–Israel relations from close partners during the Pahlavi monarchy to principal ideological adversaries.[136] Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the founder of the Islamic Republic, denounced Israel as an illegitimate "Zionist regime" and cut off diplomatic relations. Since then, this stance has been embedded in official rhetoric, military programs, state-sponsored education, and symbolic events such as Quds Day.(citation needed)

The rejection of Israel's legitimacy has remained consistent across both hardline and moderate Iranian leaderships. Supreme Leaders Ruhollah Khomeini and Ali Khamenei have both repeatedly referred to Israel as a "cancerous tumor" and publicly called for its elimination. Even reformist leaders and moderate clerics have supported this stance. While the Iranian regime maintains that its opposition is directed at Zionism rather than at Jews or Judaism, official propaganda has frequently blurred this distinction, at times incorporating Holocaust denial and invoking antisemitic tropes.(citation needed)

Iran’s anti-Israel policy is implemented through a centralized institutional framework led by the office of the Supreme Leader and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC). Operational activities are largely carried out via a network of allied non-state actors, including Hezbollah in Lebanon, the Houthis in Yemen, Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad in the Palestine, and other affiliated groups. These organizations receive sustained Iranian support in the form of funding, weapons, and training, and are collectively referred to by Iranian officials as the "Axis of Resistance". This proxy network enables Iran to exert influence across multiple fronts while posing an existential threat to Israel through asymmetric conflict. Additionally, statements by senior officials and the regime's hostility toward Israel have led many observers[which?] to view Iran's nuclear ambitions as part of a broader strategy to destroy Israel.(citation needed)

In response to Israel's 2025 attack on Iran, Iranian diplomats have denied accusations that Iran presents an "existential threat" to Israel, stating that any action they take is a defensive response to Israeli attacks, and criticising the Israeli concept of "pre-emptive self-defence".[1]

Background

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On the night of 12 June 2025 the IDF initiated the Iran–Israel war with a series of airstrikes against Iran.[2] Israeli leaders claimed their attacks were to eliminate an "existential threat" from Iran. Israeli leaders have often claimed a nuclear-armed Iran would threaten the existence of Israel.[3] Brig Gen Effie Defrin, the Israeli military's spokesperson, said their large-scale air campaign would "continue to act in pursuit of the operation's objective, to neutralize the existential threat from Iran, from its nuclear project to the regime's missile array".[4] Some Israelis opposed the attack on Iran, one prominent activitist said, "I have complete distrust in this government … It's clear this government doesn't know how to end wars, and it's not going to war to build a better future, but to serve its narrow interests", she called for Israelis to protest near the homes of Knesset members, "The chance for the future is now – there's no reason to delay going out into the streets".[5]

A separate alone Wikipedia article the aledged Iranian policy was created on June 4, eight days before Israel's surprise attack on Iran. The date of creation of the Wikipedia was reported by Jewish News Syndicate (JNS) on 20 June, in an article objecting to the Wikipedia page's proposed deletion.[JNS.org] JNS also reported that the new Wikipedia page has been viewed 42,000 times in the 16 days it has been on line.[JNS.org]

Israel's use of the alleged "existential threat" posed by Iran as a justification for their attack on Iran has been widely criticised. Israel also used this technique, known as accusation in a mirror, to justify the intensity of their attacks on Gaza. Nadeem F. Paracha said that this was not needed to justify a response to the October 7 attacks but Netanyahu needed to present Palestine as an existential threat to justify the intensity and duration of their assault on Gaza.[6] Middle East Eye said that this "narrative of existential threat" resembled arguments previously used to justify the United States invasion of Iraq in 2003.[7] (could add Michael Eisenstadt here too)

In response to Israel's 2025 attack on Iran, Iranian diplomats have denied accusations that Iran presents an "existential threat" to Israel.[UN envoy clip][8] The Iranian ambassador to the UK said, "Let me be clear. Iran has not attacked Israel. Iran has not started any war. The so-called existential threat narrative is false. It has no legal basis. Also, the Israeli invocation of pre-emptive self-defence illegally and dangerously erodes the foundation of the prohibition of the use of force in international relations. It is used only to justify aggression and hide Israel's war crimes. Iran warns that any country assisting Israeli aggression will share legal responsibility for the consequences".[9]

Leadership

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Leadership

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=== Leadership === Once strategic partners, Iran and Israel's relationship ended after the 1979 Iranian Revolution. According to Efraim Karsh, the Islamic Republic subsequently cut ties with Israel and positioned it as a central ideological adversary.[3] Since that time, Iran has declared the elimination of Israel as a central objective within the region.[4] Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the Republic's founding Supreme Leader, branded Israel the "Small Satan", a counterpart to the United States as "Great Satan".[3] Iranian leaders across generations, from Khomeini and his successor Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, to senior officials, military commanders, and state-aligned media, have consistently invoked rhetoric calling for Israel's elimination or forecasting its collapse.[3] ==== Supreme leaders ====
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=== Leadership === ==== Previous leadership ==== One of Iran's most historically pivotal previous leaders was Prime Minister [[Mohammad Mosaddegh]]. He led a secular, centre-left, nationalist government. He was overthrown in what is now acknowledged, including by the Unites States government in 2013, as a CIA backed coup initiated by the British who opposed Mosaddegh's plans to nationalise Iran's oil.[npr] One of the tactics used by [[Kermit Roosevelt]] was to seize control of the press and stirr up biggotry with stories "(claiming) Mossadegh was a Jew, a homosexual, a British agent, anything that they thought would outrage people".[https://www.npr.org/transcripts/690363402] There was an initial failed coup that included the [[Shah]] in collaboration with Roosevelt, the attempt was thwarted, Mosaddegh attributed it entirely to the Shar and the Shah left Iran.[npr] The second attempt was much more violent, the CIA paid people to riot in opposition to Mosaddegh and also paid people to commit violence in Mosadegh's name.[https://www.npr.org/transcripts/690363402] After the successful coup, Mosaddegh's government was replaced by the return of the [[Shah]], he was not accepted as legitimate and was overthrown the [[1979 Iranian Revolution]]. The revolution had wide support, one of the revolutionaries who died was a young American Christian missionary, [[Howard Baskerville]], who renounced the United States and fought for the people of Iran.[https://www.npr.org/transcripts/690363402] But after the revolution, an Islamist faction ended up taking power. Once strategic partners, Iran and Israel's relationship ended after the 1979 Iranian Revolution. According to Efraim Karsh, the Islamic Republic subsequently cut ties with Israel and positioned it as a central ideological adversary.[3] Since that time, Iran has declared the elimination of Israel as a central objective within the region.[4] Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the Republic's founding Supreme Leader, branded Israel the "Small Satan", a counterpart to the United States as "Great Satan".[3] Iranian leaders across generations, from Khomeini and his successor Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, to senior officials, military commanders, and state-aligned media, have consistently invoked rhetoric calling for Israel's elimination or forecasting its collapse.[3] ==== Supreme leaders ====

New References

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I believe I have included the citations that are enough to justify adding this. There are possibly others resources available that could be used to expand this or further support the points, but it felt urgent to at least make a start.

  • Some URLs that I used only once are cited inline above.
  • NPR I relied very heavily on the NPR source, but it's recent and comprehensive from a very trussed source. It mentions the clergy but I didn't add anything on that because the page already covers them at length. I took a repeated "would" out of the quote from the NPR transcript, it's an exact transcript of a radio documentary and the speaker stumbled on the word.
  • Al Jazeera English video "Israel's nuclear arsenal: The open secret giving it regional leverage". 19 June 2025.
  • UN envoy clip "Iran's UN envoy debunks Israeli 'existential threat' claims". 16 June 2025. Let me be clear, Iran has not attacked Israel. Iran has not started any war. The so-called existential threat narrative is false it has no legal basis it is used only to justify aggression and hide Israeli war crimes. Iran exercised its inherent right to self-defense in line with the article 51 of charter our response was defensive targeted and proportionate.
  • Seyed Ali Mousavi (diplomat), Iran's ambassador to the UK. "Foreign Affairs Committee Oral evidence: The Iran-Israel conflict, HC 1081". committees.parliament.uk. 17 June 2025. Let me be clear. Iran has not attacked Israel. Iran has not started any war. The so-called existential threat narrative is false. It has no legal basis. Also, the Israeli invocation of pre-emptive self-defence illegally and dangerously erodes the foundation of the prohibition of the use of force in international relations. It is used only to justify aggression and hide Israel's war crimes. Iran warns that any country assisting Israeli aggression will share legal responsibility for the consequences.
  • "Mohammad-Ali Ramin is a close advisor to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and that Ramin stated that "the resolution" of the Holocaust issue would lead to the "destruction of Israel".[45]" should be attributed to Meir Litvak because putting the context and translation are both potentially open to interpretation.

2405:6E00:653:2B0C:D5EC:7E3B:429C:BB5C (talk) 08:27, 22 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Should probably mention the media at the top?

2405:6E00:653:2B0C:D5EC:7E3B:429C:BB5C (talk) 08:42, 22 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

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i respect the the level of effort that no doubt went into your request and its highly thoughtful and wouldve improved this article in the prior weeks, but this article is being merged with Iran-Israel relations, and so should be probably made over there. AssanEcho (talk) 20:26, 23 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@AssanEcho, thank you. I just saw your comment. After I saved the request I saw the purple notice on the page had appeared while I was writing it. I copied the edit request here then decided to wait and see what happened. The whole page seems to be here as a section now? 2405:6E00:657:614C:89FB:2C33:4C26:6D05 (talk) 02:34, 3 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hi there! You have put a lot of work into these suggestions, but it also is a lot of work for us editors to judge the changes you propose.
I will do this in bits and pieces, in close dialogue with you.
  1. Proposed change: "in the Palestinian territories -> in the Palestine." I assume this is a slight error and you mean "in the Palestinian territories -> in Palestine." Anyway, please motivate why this should be changed.
  2. Proposed addition: "In response to Israel's 2025 attack on Iran, Iranian diplomats have denied accusations that Iran presents an "existential threat" to Israel, stating that any action they take is a defensive response to Israeli attacks, and criticising the Israeli concept of "pre-emptive self-defence"." Good text! But it needs sources, and it is not enough to refer to your long list and say it is in there. You need to explicitly state which source(s) confirm(s) this text.
Friendly, Lova Falk (talk) 08:43, 25 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, at first I only saw "friendly", but I now see how confusing my references are, even I got lost.
1. Yes, that is what I meant. I don't see or hear it called "Palestinian territories" very often, but I don't feel very strongly about that change, skip that if you prefer.
2405:6E00:656:38F4:5442:4827:901D:6CC4 (talk) 19:58, 29 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
2. The full URL is this: https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/16103/html/ – in the list it is: Seyed Ali Mousavi (diplomat), Iran's ambassador to the UK… Foreign Affairs Committee Oral evidence: The Iran-Israel conflict, HC 1081". committees.parliament.uk. 17 June 2025. "Let me be clear. Iran has not attacked Israel. Iran has not started any war. The so-called existential threat narrative is false. It has no legal basis. Also, the Israeli invocation of pre-emptive self-defence illegally and dangerously erodes the foundation of the prohibition of the use of force in international relations. It is used only to justify aggression and hide Israel's war crimes. Iran warns that any country assisting Israeli aggression will share legal responsibility for the consequences." 2405:6E00:656:38F4:5442:4827:901D:6CC4 (talk) 20:17, 29 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
PS: From Monday I will be afk and I won't have time to do this with you. So if you don't answer today, I'll close the edit request. Lova Falk (talk) 04:07, 29 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Lova Falk Hello, sorry I didn't see this until now. 2405:6E00:656:38F4:5442:4827:901D:6CC4 (talk) 12:06, 29 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It is fine, you can still answer the two questions that I asked you. It is not yet Monday. Lova Falk (talk) 12:37, 29 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Lova Falk, sorry, I can't find the two questions you mean? 2405:6E00:656:38F4:5442:4827:901D:6CC4 (talk) 19:17, 29 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
She means this: [10] Thepharoah17 (talk) 19:39, 29 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, I got confused by the indenting. 2405:6E00:656:38F4:5442:4827:901D:6CC4 (talk) 19:45, 29 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
 Partly done I did not change Palestinian territories, because it seems consciously chosen when Israel's view is discussed. However, I have added the text that started with "In response to..." I cannot do more, because I'll be away from keyboard for a while. Any other editor is very welcome to continue! Lova Falk (talk) 07:22, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. I see the problem with the first source now. When it was a page by itself that addition was in that top section that didn't have any references. That line summarized the text I added below. When I finished and saved my first request the "this page will be merged" notice was there. I copied to the new page but wasn't really sure what to do next, I decided to leave it a few days to see if it improved when combined with the new page. 2405:6E00:655:4A9C:445B:DCD0:79B3:1A8E (talk) 05:14, 1 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Edit Request 5 July 2025

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Signature from withdrawn request: 2405:6E00:655:F59E:904D:33F7:8EB6:71EB (talk) 05:08, 5 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Request withdrawn: This had no replies for over a month, so I'm withdrawing my request. It was probably long and detailed. Hopefully other unresolved requests are more likely to get seen and solved with less clutter on the page. 2405:6E00:655:30F3:742D:31FB:58EC:9011 (talk) 08:21, 21 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 July 2025

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Should the destruction of Israel in Iranian policy be in the Iran threatening Israel section? – KaijuEditor (talk) 13:35, 14 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Are you requesting that this edit be made, or are you trying to start a discussion concerning whether or not it should be? Day Creature (talk) 21:12, 14 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Both, mostly the latter. – KaijuEditor (talk) 21:36, 14 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. Closing for now, unfortunately edit requests aren't the way to attract attention for discussion, they're meant for applying uncontroversial changes to an article — 🪫Volatile 📲T | ⌨️C 18:26, 19 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Where do I make a WP:CONSENSUS? – KaijuEditor (talk) 05:36, 22 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It is made here, but since this page is a contentious topic under WP:ARBPIA, unfortunately you are not allowed to discuss or participate in discussions. Per above: "You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)." I'll send over a notice on your page shortly. — 🪫Volatile 📲T | ⌨️C 22:58, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request 19 July 2025

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I've separated this out from above to ask separately, because I think by itself this change is relatively uncontroversial. 2405:6E00:655:B4B:D674:A229:ADF7:D489 (talk) 19:53, 19 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Section: "Holocaust denial and Conspiracy theories"

  • Meir Litvak's professional details were from his own page. A translated quote coming via him should be attributed to him.
  • The change from Shi'ite to Shia is because "Shia" seems to be the modern standard term, the page is called Shia Islam.
  • The last paragraph from the "conspiracy theories" section should be removed (details below)
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=== Holocaust denial === Until recently, Iran was the only state whose leadership and institutions openly engaged in Holocaust denial (and at times justification) as part of official ideology.[7] This rhetoric served to legitimize calls for the destruction of Israel by denying or minimizing the Holocaust, thereby undermining the historical justification for the state's existence and portraying it instead as a product of Western imperialism.[45] Mohammad-Ali Ramin, a close advisor to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, once stated that "the resolution" of the Holocaust issue would lead to the "destruction of Israel".[45] === Conspiracy theories === Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei told university students that Israel was created by Western powers with the explicit goal of preventing unity among Muslim states.[46] Ayatollah Mahmoud Hashemi Shahroudi, former head of Iran's judiciary, claimed that "racist, anti-human" Zionism has "enslaved all of the world's peoples" and accused Muslim states of cooperating with a Zionist conspiracy of the "Hebrew polity" to divide the Islamic world.[46] Iranian MP Emad Afroogh alleged that "Jewish rabbis" were responsible for Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi's shift away from his previous moderation toward Shi'ites.[46] IRGC Navy Commander Alireza Tangsiri, in 2022, claimed that Saudi rulers descend from the Jews of Medina and Khaybar, enemies of the Prophet Muhammad.[46] Iranian media, including outlets aligned with the reformist faction, have accused Israeli intelligence of making efforts to undermine Shi'ite religious rituals and sow sectarian discord.[47] In one 2019 example, Mossad was alleged to have trained Israeli Jews as maddahan (ritual eulogists) to infiltrate mourning assemblies in Iran and deliberately mislead audiences into cursing or blaspheming.[47] Between 2011 and 2021, Iranian institutions organized dozens of ideologically driven conferences with provocative titles such as "Zionism and the SARS Disease", "Genocide in Rwanda and in Gaza" (where only one speaker addressed Rwanda and the remaining fifteen focused on Gaza), and "Judaism and Hollywood: A Diabolical Conspiracy", showing the regime's effort to link Zionism with global ills.[48] These events, while often poorly attended, are publicly portrayed as major intellectual gatherings, with state media describing a half-empty auditorium as "standing room only" at a conference titled "The Jewish Roots of MI-6".[48] == Responses ==
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(abridged to fit in TextDiff) === Holocaust denial === Until recently, Iran was the only state whose leadership and institutions openly engaged in Holocaust denial (and at times justification) as part of official ideology.[7] This rhetoric served to legitimize calls for the destruction of Israel by denying or minimizing the Holocaust, thereby undermining the historical justification for the state's existence and portraying it instead as a product of Western imperialism.[45] [[Meir Litvak]], an Israeli academic who studies "Islamist antisemitism", has written that Mohammad-Ali Ramin is a close advisor to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and that Ramin stated that "the resolution" of the Holocaust issue would lead to the "destruction of Israel".[45] === Conspiracy theories === Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei told university students that Israel was created by Western powers with the explicit goal of preventing unity among Muslim states.[46] Ayatollah Mahmoud Hashemi Shahroudi, former head of Iran's judiciary, claimed that "racist, anti-human" Zionism has "enslaved all of the world's peoples" and accused Muslim states of cooperating with a Zionist conspiracy of the "Hebrew polity" to divide the Islamic world.[46] Iranian MP Emad Afroogh alleged that "Jewish rabbis" were responsible for Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi's shift away from his previous moderation toward Shi'ites.[46] IRGC Navy Commander Alireza Tangsiri, in 2022, claimed that Saudi rulers descend from the Jews of Medina and Khaybar, enemies of the Prophet Muhammad.[46] Iranian media, including outlets aligned with the reformist faction, have accused Israeli intelligence of making efforts to undermine Shia religious rituals and sow sectarian discord.[47] In one 2019 example, Mossad was alleged to have trained Israeli Jews as maddahan (ritual eulogists) to infiltrate mourning assemblies in Iran and deliberately mislead audiences into cursing or blaspheming.[47] === Responses ===

Reasons to remove the last paragraph

Putting "Genocide in Rwanda and in Gaza" in a section called "conspiracy theories" between "Zionism and the SARS Disease" and "Judaism and Hollywood: A Diabolical Conspiracy" implies that that the "Palestinian genocide accusation" or even the Gaza genocide is a "conspiracy theory", which not supported by the cited reference or any other reputable source.

Nothing in the last paragraph is supported by any other sources I can find.

The citation on the page also misspells the author's name, it should be Ze'ev Maghen (with an H). But I definitely have the right source because, the entire section "(only one speaker addressed Rwanda, while the remaining fifteen spoke about Gaza)" appears in the full text I found, including the brackets, and the text in on this Wikipedia page changes only one word.

The source doesn't describe any of these as "conspiracy theories" just "pseudo-academic conferences" that are "a widely used tool to promote the notion of the Islamic Republic as a hothouse of research and intellectual sophistication, represents another cog in the Iranian propaganda machine". The source also doesn't say anything to directly support any of those three "showing the regime's effort to link Zionism with global ills".

I looked for other sources, and I cannot find any other sources confirming an event called "Genocide in Rwanda and in Gaza" was held in Iran between 2011 and 2021. I was trying to find a date, or details on what the speakers presented, but I can't find any evidence the event existed at all.

  • Reference on the page: "Magen, Ze'ev (2023). Reading revolutionary Iran: the worldview of the Islamic republic's religio-political elite. Studies on Modern Orient. Berlin, Boston: De Gruyter. pp. 207–208. ISBN 978-3-11-101810-2."
  • Full text: Ze'ev Maghen. "Reading Revolutionary Iran: The Worldview of the Islamic Republic's Religio-Political Elite". Between 2011 and 2021, conferences were held in various provinces across the length and breadth of the country sporting such titles as "The Distress of the Western Woman" (parishani-ye zan-e gharbi); "The Genuine Roots of Democracy: Greek or Islamic?" (the unanimous answer of the participants was, of course, the latter); "Racism, Terrorism, Capitalism, Zionism and Imperialism"; "Judaism and Hollywood: A Diabolical Conspiracy"; "Winebibbing and the Wane of the West" (maykharegi va oful-e-gharb); "Human Rights in Islam and in the West"; "Zionism and the SARS Disease"; "Genocide in Rwanda and in Gaza" (only one speaker addressed Rwanda, while the remaining fifteen spoke about Gaza); "The Philosophy of Secularism and the Destruction of the American Family"; "International Arrogance (the common appellation for the U. S. and sometimes the United Kingdom) and the Support of Dictatorship"; "The Physiological Benefits of Islamic Prostration" (attended by orthopedists, chiropractors and sports doctors); "Space Exploration as Described in the Qurʿan"; "Fāṭima (the Prophet Muḥammad's daughter) and Genuine Feminism"; and dozens more of this ilk. Many of these conferences (like their Western counterparts) are ill attended – despite the common practice in Iran of dragging raw recruits straight from boot camp to fill up the seats – but in true Orwellian fashion the reporter covering the event will often stand in front of a visibly half empty hall and declare unabashedly: "As you can see, it is standing room only here at the 'The Jewish Roots of MI-6' conference".

2405:6E00:655:B4B:D674:A229:ADF7:D489 (talk) 19:53, 19 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Revised. 2405:6E00:655:B4B:D674:A229:ADF7:D489 (talk) 21:13, 19 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done Please also provide your changes in plain text.