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A1: Reliable sources support the view that bands like Led Zeppelin were considered heavy metal in their time and were major pioneers of the genre in its early stages. There has been a long-standing consensus to include an explanation of their role in the article.
Q2: Why is hard rock not one of the stylistic origins in the infobox.
A2: Hard rock and heavy metal were used interchangeably for at least a decade, therefore one is not the progenitor of the other.
Q3: Didn't Black Sabbath invent heavy metal, for example by adopting the tritone?
A3: Black Sabbath made an important contribution to the development of heavy metal, but reliable sources indicate that they were only one of a number of bands that contributed to that process.
Q4: Aren't metal and heavy metal different genres?
A4: Reliable sources indicate that metal is just an abbreviation for heavy metal. The terms are sometimes used in different contexts, but it would be confusing to have separate Wikipedia articles about what is essentially the same genre.
"Attendees of metal concerts do not dance in the usual sense. It has been argued that this is due to the music's largely male audience and "extreme heterosexualist ideology".
"Largely male" is fair, but to describe a subculture where Judas Priest and Queen are as revered as they are in metal circles as "extreme heterosexualist", well...Maybe it "has been argued", but including that in the article seems like giving it undue weight. Rob Halfords own wiki-page mentions that "Halford has previously spoken about the level of acceptance of his sexuality within the metal community, calling it accepting and inclusive.", and on the subject matter I'm prepared to say that "being Rob Halford" lends more credibility to speak on this particular subject than does "has a PhD in Sociology". Wolfram1987 (talk) 21:18, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The commentary is in reference to the genre in a general sense. Anecdotes from a non-heterosexual frontman don't discredit it on a whole. You'd be better off trying to add a counterpoint from Halford than trying to delete the criticism wholesale. Sergecross73msg me21:48, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Regardless of the actual relation between heavy metal and LGBT, the text is a non-sequitur, as it does not explain how or why the alleged "extreme heterosexualist ideology" leads to a lack of a form of dance. Besides, misogyny in tango is even more clear than in heavy metal, and that does not prevent tango from having an associated dance... a dance that is, in fact, more famous than the music genre itself. Also, the "extreme heterosexualist ideology" has been toned down in recent years, with increased numbers of women in bands, but that hasn't led to the generation of any new heavy metal dance. Pogo, mosh, headbanging and the like are still the ways to "dance" heavy metal, and that isn't changing anytime soon... in fact, the new female metalheads accept it as valid part of the whole heavy metal, not as something that should be ended, and within the audience it is not that rare to find women in mosh pits.
Besides, the text is in the "Physical gestures" section, and the LGBT stuff goes off-topic. And also, it is just someone's speculation, not an actual fact (not even a disputed fact, such as who created the "devil horns"). I think that just "Attendees of metal concerts do not dance in the usual sense", and then continue with "Two primary body movements used are headbanging..." would be fine. Cambalachero (talk) 00:48, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to amend it with further reliable source commentary, as I recommended back in 2023 when this was first opened. I'm not opposed to giving more of a view, I'm just opposed at editors constant attempts to POV-push and whitewash any criticism towards the genre, which fans have continued to try to do over the years. Sergecross73msg me01:11, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This is not about removing criticisms, but about staying on-topic. The section where the discussed text is located is about the physical gestures associated with heavy metal, not about criticisms of the genre in general or the relation with LGBT. Do you want to include criticisms in that section? Fine... include criticisms about the physical gestures being mentioned. Otherwise, move it elsewhere. Cambalachero (talk) 01:38, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I did not write or place it anywhere, merely objected to its removal, which was what originally spurred this discussion. I have not objected to merely moving it elsewhere in the article, nor do I now, unless it complicates what 3family6 was doing planning on adding as mentioned above. Sergecross73msg me01:44, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This article has a large focus on Led Zepplin when they are hardly Metal. They are the definition of Hard Rock and what would become hard rock. That being said how is there no mention of Ronnie James Dio in the beginning? He was in Elf and Rainbow which are perfect examples of early heavy metal. Lastly I have never see or read or heard of anyone thinking Led Zepplin is the "first metal band" its always Black Sabbath. 2603:3003:320E:6100:4DDA:9D6A:E328:FAD3 (talk) 20:32, 16 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
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Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — Czello (music) 18:37, 23 June 2025 (UTC)
