Talk:Decapitation in Islam

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination. Logs and discussions: Move logs: Beheading in Islam Beheading in the name of Islam Discussions: Beheading in Islam → Beheading and terrorism, Not Moved, 7 June 2022, Talk:Beheading in Islam#Requested move 30 May 2022 Beheading in Islam → Beheading in jihadist terrorism, Under Discussion, not yet complete, Talk:Beheading in Islam#Requested move 9 June 2022

Merge with "Capital punishment in Islam"

I came across the Capital punishment in Islam article and it seems redundant to have a separate article just on beheading. Beheading in Islam should be a section under Capital punishment in Islam. KuroNekoNiyah (talk) 02:44, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There was a long merge/split discussion on this talk page from a few years ago that ended without consensus. One might revisit it, but the issue with the specific merge you're proposing is that most of the content in this article isn't about capital punishment (legal killing), but rather terrorism (illegal killing). Eperoton (talk) 03:47, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Eperoton: When you say legal, it has to be legal as per Islamic law. Otherwise, it is unrelated to Islam. KuroNekoNiyah (talk) 02:18, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If an Islamist terrorist beheads someone in the name of jihad, I would say that's related to Islam. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:33, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

But finally "Capital punishment" has its own meaning. Also, being related to Islam does not mean the Islamic law endorse that. --Mhhossein ^talk 05:22, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's why perhaps the article should not be merged to the capital punishment one. There are beheadings in Islam (meaning, prompted by a person's Islamic beliefs) with are not legal under Islamic law. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 01:45, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Good Olfactory I agreed with this comment you made years ago that this article is a synthesis of various sources that document beheadings committed by individual Muslims. We don't have sources that actually broadly cover the topic of "beheading in Islam".VR _talk 01:30, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I haven't looked into the topic for some time, but that could still be true. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 01:48, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • If we can't find sources on this topic (that are separate from capital punishment in Islam in general) then I would agree with merging this article to Capital punishment in Islam.VR _talk 05:54, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • The title Beheading in Islam should describe any beheading related to this actual religion (jihadist beheading will appear there) and the title Capital punishment in Islam is about death penalty from Islamic law (not only beheading, also longitudinal impalement and so on). Both title have an intersection, the Beheading as capital punishment in Islam, and a union, the Intentional death in Islam --Geysirhead (talk) 18:43, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        • Intentional death might also include Suicide in Islam, which is forbidden and will therefore not be a part of the merged article.--Geysirhead (talk) 04:54, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
          • One more correction. The term Intentional death includes homocide, but somehow does not include capital penalty (List of countries by intentional death rate). Maybe Executions in Islam (also including mob justice) for the merged article? --Geysirhead (talk) 04:44, 3 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Should this article be explicitly about capital punishment under some Islamic law, then it should be merged with the Capital punishment in Islam article. If it's article on extrajudicial killing, war-crime, terrorism, etc. than "in Islam" part of the title has to go.--౪ Santa ౪^99° 22:16, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is correct. This article is correctly a confused mishmash between two totally different subjects. Either this is about capital punishment as understood to be sanctioned by Islam in certain contexts, or it is about extrajudicial beheadings perpetrated by self-proclaimed Islamist groups, which are routinely roundly condemned by Islamic scholars the world over. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:53, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone ahead and copied the relevant material on legal usage by state-level actors across to Capital punishment in Islam. I'll to propose a move here. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:09, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Iskandar323: given that there was no consensus for either move title, would you agree with merging this to Capital punishment in Islam?VR _talk 19:59, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Don't mind. The pages have a different scope: One on capital punishment; one on decapitation specifically. The reason to merge is due to overlap, and the fact that decapitation appears to be the overwhelming capital punishment method of preference. But the merger is not a necessity. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:39, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of "In Khutbah, sermons and protest sloganeering" section

I read through this entire section in detail looking for something useful or salvageable and pertaining to the subject, but the entire body of material was incredibly unencyclopedic, disjointed and off-topic. Death threats in Pakistani politics are not the same as actual regimes of execution. For anyone wanting to restore this material, the WP:ONUS is on them in terms of demonstrating its relevance to the subject. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:31, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What was the problem here? can you explain point by point, sentence by sentence with reference to specific Wikipedia policies?

Deleted section In Khutbah, sermons and protest sloganeering

Gul Bukhari in 'The Nation (Pakistan)' says that, taking benefit of average Pakistanis not having expertise in the Arabic language, fanatic clergy regularly quote other ayat of the Qur’an that had nothing whatsoever to do with blasphemy. They translate them to the unsuspecting believers to mislead them that ‘sar tan se juda’ (head cut off from body) is the prescribed Islamic punishment for blasphemy.[1] In the TRT World, author Umer Bin Ajmal narrates own school experience in Pakistan, where in one of Urdu couplet for regular school assembly prayer was (Urdu:) “Sadarat mein, sifarat mein, wazarat mein, adalat mein; jo dekho deen ke dushman tou sar tan se juda kar do; (In presidency, in embassy, in ministry, in court; if you come across enemies of the faith, behead them).”[2] According to Sohail Khattak and Noman Ahmed of 'The Express Tribune, Pakistan', in 2014 Professor Dr Muhammad Shakil Auj, the then officiating dean of Islamic Studies Faculty at the University of Karachi was gunned down. Police investigators suspected likely involvement of his own colleagues in texting and circulating blasphemy charges with message 'sar tan se juda (Beheading is the punishment)' against Auj, being not happy with the orientation of his research.[3] According to Naila Inayat not only French President Emmanuel Macron’s defaced photos were pasted on the floors of a bazaars for people to step on, a female teacher in Islamabad based Islamic seminary Jamia Hafsa madrassa (of Lal Masjid) was recorded beheading an effigy of President Macron as teenage female students chanted ‘Ghustak-e-Nabi ki aik hi saza, sar tan se juda (Beheading is the only punishment for those who blaspheme the Prophet)’.[4] According to Safdar Sial of Pak Institute for Peace Studies, traditional narratives of the Barelvis being followers of Sufism, peace-loving and moderate stands negated when it comes blasphemy-related issues.[5] Pakistan Sunni Tehreek, came into being in 1990 to contest take over of the mosques and madrasas of the Barelvi school of thought by Deobandi and Ahle Hadith groups, then there slogan was "Jawaniyan lutaain gai, masjidain bachayein gai [We will sacrifice our lives to protect our mosques]" with anti blasphemy protest newer radical slogan adopted by them is "Tauheen rasalat ki ek saza, sar tan se juda (There’s only one punishment for a blasphemer and that is beheading).[5] According to Zia Ur Rehman's geo.tv news report, Barelvi groups are politically exploiting the issue of blasphemy to exhibit their strength to counter the growing influence of Deobandi and Ahle Hadith groups. They started a trend of radicalisation, making it difficult to differentiate between them and jihadist groups.[5] According to a Pakistani law enforcement official, they are a network of criminals mainly involved in extortion cases and targeted killings. turned into Minister for Parliamentary Affairs of Pakistan, Ali Muhammad Khan defended a later-deleted Tweet post in which he said: "There is only one punishment for insulting the Prophet - chopping off the head", Ali Khan insisted that, he believed in "legal procedures and court proceedings" for anyone accused of blasphemy and said he deleted post since Twitter had asked him to delete the post.[6] Subsequently, in April 2021 European Parliament specifically expressed displeasure over the minister Ali's remarks saying, "..strongly rejects the reported statement by Pakistan’s Minister of State for Parliamentary Affairs, Ali Khan, calling for people who commit blasphemy to be beheaded..", the EU parliament adopted resolution also stated that, it is concerned by the fact that blasphemy laws in Pakistan are frequently abused to make false accusations having various incentives, including settling personal disputes or seeking economic gain; and called on the Government of Pakistan, therefore, to take due heed of the resolution and to repeal the blasphemy laws accordingly.[7][8] In another incident in Karnataka India, in November 2020, an inflammatory graffiti using similar text "Gustak-e-Rasool ki ek hi Saza, Sar Tan se Juda (There is only one punishment for offending the Prophet, severing the head from the body)” was observed on walls of a building at a township, intending to cause a social strife.[9][10]

Bookku (talk) 16:04, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Section Reflist

References

1. Bukhari, Gul (2017-04-15). "Mashal". The Nation. Archived from the original on 14 June 2018. Retrieved 2021-11-25. "...Taking advantage of the Arabic language being alien to Pakistanis, the Alims-Jamatias-Oryas-Rizvis etc. also regularly quote other ayat of the Qur'an that have nothing whatsoever to do with blasphemy and mistranslate them for the unsuspecting believers to give them the impression that 'sar tan se juda' (head cut off from body) is the prescribed Islamic punishment for blasphemy...." ~ Gul Bukhari in The Nation (Pakistan) Date April 16, 2017
2. Ajmal, Umer Bin (6 Sep 2021). "Pakistan's complex relationship with religious extremism". Pakistan’s complex relationship with religious extremism. Archived from the original on 6 October 2021. Retrieved 2021-11-25. "...The school I completed my matriculation from belonged to a chain of dozens of schools run and administered by the Jamaat-i-Islami (JI), a political party leaning to the right of the political spectrum...A ritual every day during the assembly was the recitation of some verses from the Quran, followed by a poem, and Pakistan's national anthem to conclude. ...One of the poems, that in the day was quite popular at my school, had these lyrics in Urdu: "Sadarat mein, sifarat mein, wazarat mein, adalat mein; jo dekho deen ke dushman tou sar tan se juda kar do; (In presidency, in embassy, in ministry, in court; if you come across enemies of the faith, behead them)...." By Umer Bin Ajmal at TRT World
3. Khattak, Sohail; Ahmed, Noman (2014-09-18). "Targeted: KU Islamic Studies dean shot dead". The Express Tribune. Archived from the original on 19 September 2014. Retrieved 2021-11-25.
4. Inayat, Naila (2020-11-05). "French President, shampoo, cosmetics are all haram in Pakistan. Just not French defence toys". ThePrint. Archived from the original on 5 November 2020. Retrieved 2021-11-25. "...While the social media teams trend 'Shame on you Macro', there was a 'Macron-cutting' ceremony on display at the notorious Jamia Hafsa madrassa (of Lal Masjid fame) in Islamabad. A teacher was recorded beheading an effigy of President Macron as young female students chanted 'Ghustak-e-Nabi ki aik hi saza, sar tan se juda (Beheading is the only punishment for those who blaspheme the Prophet)'.." By Naila Inayat in ThePrint Dated 5 November 2020
5. Rehman, Zia Ur (2 April 2016). "Ditching the tag of mysticism, Barelvi militancy rears head in form of Sunni Tehreek". geo.tv. Archived from the original on 2 April 2016. Retrieved 2021-11-25.
6. Peshimam, Gibran Naiyyar (2020-05-07). "Pakistan excludes religious sect from minority commission". Reuters. Retrieved 2021-11-26. ""State Minister for Parliamentary Affairs Ali Muhammad Khan...Khan defended a now-deleted Twitter post in which he said: "There is only one punishment for insulting the Prophet - chopping off the head"....He stressed he believed in "legal procedures and court proceedings" for anyone accused of blasphemy and said Twitter had asked him to delete the post.." as appeared in Pakistan excludes religious sect from minority commission ~ Reuters dated 7 May 2020 {{cite news}}: External link in |quote= (help)
7. "opean Parliament resolution of 29 April 2021 on the blasphemy laws in Pakistan, in particular the case of Shagufta Kausar and Shafqat Emmanuel (2021/2647(RSP))". European Parliament. 29 April 2021. Archived from the original on 4 May 2021. Retrieved 26 November 2021.
8. Hamdani, Yasser Latif (2021-05-02). "Pakistan's moral compass". Daily Times. Archived from the original on 3 May 2021. Retrieved 2021-11-26.
9. Swamy, Rohini (2020-11-29). "Mangaluru Police find two 'inflammatory' graffiti in three days, suspect 'pro-terror' groups". ThePrint. Retrieved 2021-11-25.
10. "Two secured in graffiti case". The Hindu. Special Correspondent. 2020-12-06. ISSN 0971-751X. Retrieved 2021-11-25.

Add beheadings in imlilm

This article Murders of Louisa Vesterager Jespersen and Maren Ueland gives another two somewhat recent accounts of beheading done by isil. 2A02:8388:1846:5280:256C:40D:CE49:DD44 (talk) 17:50, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Separation of topics

Why not separate terrorist beheadings from this article and put it under a new entry?

2401:7400:6007:C6B4:E716:DEED:42F6:B34D (talk) 04:42, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, why not? Definitely a thought. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:09, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Sar tan se juda (Urdu slogan)" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Sar tan se juda (Urdu slogan) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 August 16 § Sar tan se juda (Urdu slogan) until a consensus is reached. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 00:45, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]