Talk:Cardinal electors in the 2025 papal conclave

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The map of cardinal electors by country is blocking part of the accompanying table. Can an editor please fix this? 24.12.242.60 (talk) 18:38, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Are you on desktop or mobile? I'm trying to recreate the issue and haven't found it yet. TheSavageNorwegian 18:57, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Map of electors by country is wrong

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Really appreciate this great article! I don’t have a wikipedia account and have never done this, but I think the map of cardinal electors by country is wrong - it doesn’t show any electors from Iraq or Iran 2600:4040:29F8:1F00:B84C:906D:238:6808 (talk) 21:42, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, I removed the map. --Norden1990 (talk) 10:11, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you both for noticing my error. Wow, was I ever hasty! I have updated the map and cleaned it up a bit. TheSavageNorwegian 14:35, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Thesavagenorwegian: Thanks for creating the map. Might you be able to amend it to add a pink circle to represent Jerusalem, rather than colouring in Israel? We're being deliberately careful to categorise Pizzaballa under "Jerusalem", as per the table. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 16:57, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There was a circle there to begin with, but to represent the West Bank/Palestine. I was a bit conflicted about which of them to color in honestly, but since I've now removed all unnecessary circles from the map, I could just change the caption on the circle to say Jerusalem and that'd fix it I suppose! TheSavageNorwegian 17:23, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've made the update. TheSavageNorwegian 17:35, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

120

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This "max 120 can participate, but there are 135" issue needs to be more clearly explained. 193.188.156.131 (talk) 13:50, 22 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Cardinal Becciu

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He has asserted his right to participate in the conclave. That doesn't mean they'll let him participate but I think it warrants a sentence that's not in the footnote. Killuminator (talk) 20:16, 23 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Source please. Rutsq (talk) 20:29, 23 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Here. I'd already added it to his article. Killuminator (talk) 20:44, 23 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
And now rather more thorough coverage HERE. Rutsq (talk) 04:59, 24 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

List or Article?

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Re Becciu, the 120/135 electors controversy, electors choosing not to attend the conclave due to age -- These are all covered in greater depth at the main conclave page. I see minimal reason for them to be covered here imprecisely and as a sidebar or footnote when they are fully addressed at the main conclave article. This list should be a list, and the article page should be an article page. Maximilian775 (talk) 05:17, 24 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ideological leaning

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Could we add another pillar called "Ideological leaning (if available)" and where it's clear we add either "Traditionalist" or "Modernist", e.g. Raymond Burke and Robert Sarah are traditionalists while Matteo Zuppi or Mario Grech lean modernist. Where a cardinal's leaning is not clear enough we would leave it blank. 2001:4BC9:1F98:5F5F:58D7:D0CC:3021:AED6 (talk) 09:19, 24 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think this can be determined objectively. Cardinals are not like secular politicians, who have defined and declared partisan loyalties. Maximilian775 (talk) 17:48, 24 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Where it can't be determined the space would be left blank. But if someone favors Holy Communion on the tongue and the Tridentine Mass like Cardinal Sarah, this would be considered traditionalist without any doubts. If someone wants women to be deacons or claiming homosexuality isn't a sin, this is clearly modernist. 2001:4BC9:1F98:3D63:D495:B1F1:90F6:44E1 (talk) 18:01, 24 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This would largely be original research and there are huge language barriers. And for what? So people can have gossip fodder here? Killuminator (talk) 20:14, 24 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Work like this has been done at https://collegeofcardinalsreport.com/ . I would advise you to look there before reinventing the wheel here. However, I would note that even this site does not have the discretely-drawn partisan bounds and labels you are hoping for. Maximilian775 (talk) 02:20, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It has. Thank you. 2001:4BC9:1F99:56AA:3C83:D47C:D224:6C9D (talk) 06:04, 25 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Puljic now says he wanna attend

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Interview with Cardinal Puljic (in Croatian; I used Google Translate to understand) stating yesterday that he intends to participate in the conclave.

https://www.bitno.net/vijesti/svijet/kardinal-puljic-ipak-ce-sudjelovati-u-izboru-novog-pape/ 2804:14D:B489:8193:8DA3:E7F2:7295:A5F (talk) 13:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Njue is out?

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With the exception of an indirect reference on The Tablet website, I have not found any source that claims that Cardinal Njue will miss the conclave. There's no direct quote from him, anywhere. I think we should look for more sources before changing the table. 2804:D41:F852:3E00:8DA3:E7F2:7295:A5F (talk) 15:30, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The indirect reference being, "Two of the electors, Kenya’s Cardinal John Njue and Spain’s Cardinal Antonio Cañizares Llovera, said they would not attend the conclave due to health concerns." My reading of this reliable source noticeboard discussion about The Tablet is that the consensus is it's a a reliable source for facts about the Vatican, though it has pro-Catholic bias, which would not come into play here. Seems to be a perfectly acceptable source for this non-attendance fact. TheSavageNorwegian 17:38, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
A week ago, The Standard (Kenya), a venerable publication, reported that Njue will not participate because he is over 80: Kenya to miss papal conclave as Cardinal Njue exceeds voting age limit of 80 years Rutsq (talk) 13:28, 30 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It appears we have conflicting sources then. Some say his absence is due to health, others age. I think crafting an explanatory note is in order? TheSavageNorwegian 16:21, 1 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Njue disputed the reason, stating he was not invited. His archdiocese issued a denial though. Killuminator (talk) 20:15, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The map that shows number of cardinals by region has a math error

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The number of cardinals of Italy plus rest of Europe is 43, not 53. 174.226.255.129 (talk) 07:58, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You made this point elsewhere. The numbers are correct. Rutsq (talk) 13:02, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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