Talk:Augusta Read Thomas

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Hey, I don't think she left Northwestern--at least I hope she didn't, as she's the whole reason I applied there. She's still on the university's faculty page (it doesn't list her as "emeritus") and I couldn't find anything on her personal webpage about it.

--Never mind, I found it. Hey, that really sucks... I wonder who'll replace her.

RE: Northwestern has had some trouble funding positions well, and providing tenure to people who deserve it- the people on top haven't been making very good decisions, and it's been crippling the comp department, which must be frustrating to the faculty on a variety of levels. IMO, Augusta Read Thomas was at Northwestern because it was close to the CSO. She wasn't taking new students this year, anyway, but she was finishing up with people that had begun studies with her. SInce her CSO composer in residence ended, I don't think she had as much of a reason to be there. We'll all miss her influence in Chicago...

Riceklang 06:05, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Suggested Edit

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Add to "Early Life and Education"

After graduating from high school, Thomas enrolled as a music student (specializing in trumpet performance) at Northwestern University in 1983.[1] Thomas studied with faculty members and composers Alan Stout and M. William Karlins.[2]https://www.northwestern.edu/magazine/northwestern/fall2001/features/encoreaugusta/index.htm

After earning a bachelor's degree from Northwestern, Thomas attended Yale University to pursue a master's degree in composition. There she studied with Jacob Druckman. [3] Thomas did not complete a degree program at Yale, finishing her master's degree at the Royal Academy of Music in London in 1989. [4]There, she studied with Paul Patterson, the Manson Chair of Composition Faculty. [5] Seven years after graduating from the Royal Academy of Music in London, Thomas was elected one of its Associates (ARAM, honorary degree), and in 2004 was elected a Fellow of the Royal Academy of Music. [6] In 1999, she won the Award of Merit from the President of Northwestern University, and a year later received Northwestern's Alumnae Award. [7] [8]

Immediately after receiving her degree from the Royal Academy of Music [9], Thomas was awarded a Guggenheim Fellowship in 1989. [10]

Msavannah44 (talk) 15:01, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your request above.
Just a couple of points here...
Some of the sources you provide appear to be profiles at past employers' websites. These are generally not independent sources as they are likely to have either been written by the subject or written based on info provided by the subject. Is there difficulty providing sourcing for the events in question in independent mainstream media?
Awards given by Northwestern University to alumni are unlikely to be of encyclopaedic interest. Inclusion would probably be classed as promotional. Axad12 (talk) 17:31, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok so then explain why all other living composer pages have similar credits and citations:
Thomas Adès
Jennifer Higdon
George Crumb
Mason Bates
These are objective facts about the famous person and the sources are from the institution itself that can verify the accuracy of the fact noted. There are other sources as well, but I don't understand why the first hand account of the fact wouldn't outweigh some third party newspaper article that references the primary source. Anyone looking for more information about any of these composers would particularly like to know the institutions and other experts in the field they were associated with. If you see this as promotional, then there would be almost no information about any of the individuals on Wikipedia that have their own biography page. Msavannah44 (talk) 18:00, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that other articles are also problematically cited isn't an argument that problematic citations should be included here. It is an argument that such sources should be removed elsewhere.
I do not doubt that the material is factual, I am simply requesting that it be verified by reliable independent sources, which is a standard requirement for material to be added to Wikipedia.
Please note that Wikipedia attempts to reflect what is reported in secondary sources - the reason being that they are independent of the subject. For further detail here see WP:PRIMARY and WP:SECONDARY.
When it is impossible to source material from secondary sources it is an indication that the subject may not be notable for inclusion in the encyclopaedia, not that there is some kind of flaw in the sourcing policy.
To be honest I am quite surprised that you are a paid editor but yet you seem to have no familiarity with basic Wikipedia requirements on sourcing. I provided you with abundant background on that topic back in October, which you seem to have ignored. That formation was provided in good faith in an attempt to help you.
I am a volunteer here trying to ensure that COI edit requests conform with policy, there is no need for the aggressive attitude demonstrated above commencing with "Ok so then". Axad12 (talk) 18:47, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was asked to look at this article, which I find woefully inadequate. As the author of the original 2001 Grove Dictionary of Music article, I was given a word limit of 250 words, not including her works list (which you haven't included anyway). Hence, I was unable to include many details of the composer's life and work, little more than a resume at the time, as well as my impression of the characteristics of her compositional style (which is also not included in this article, and is probably out of date anyway. Your editors have said that it looks like a resume, yet when someone tries to add real meat to the "story," it is cut down for lack of sources. Unless someone has written a substantial biography of her (which AFAIK they haven't), it is difficult to find sources outside of magazine articles, writings by the composer herself, or program bios, which in most cases (not just this composer) are written by the composers themselves, or by their publicist.
When providing information about a living person, it is difficult to find unbiased information more than 1 step removed from the source, which seems to be what you are looking for. This article omits her early musical education, much of which can only be sourced from the subject of the article herself as well as some on the University of Chicago website. Some of the material requested in the edit post-dates my Grove article, which was mostly written in 1998, with the worklist updated just before publication. This doesn't say that she ever taught at Northwestern University (while she was composer-in-residence with the Chicago Symphony). It ignores her long connections with the Aspen Music Festival and Tanglewood (other than having studied with Oliver Knussen).
If I was to consider writing about her again, I would want to know some of the information that you consider a resume. It is relevant to her life and our understanding of it. I know that one of her "breakthrough" performances as a young composer came at a Horizons concert by the NY Philharmonic (possibly a last minute addition, too). Is it there? No. Do I have any sources? I was alive at the time, and heard about it. She has since withdrawn the work, so you may not find much record of it, or even know to look for the performance. What makes her particularly difficult to write on is that she has withdrawn many of her compositions, most from her first publisher Theodore Presser. They aren't listed anywhere, but I was at some of the performances (her chamber opera Psychles for one - Chicago Opera Theater). How would you find them in your article? - you would never even know to go there from it.
While I agree with the intent of keeping the articles away from the influence of the subject itself, certain information, like perhaps you would find in an article on Mozart, is difficult to find about a living composer without resorting to materials that originated with them. Much of that type of early biographical information was gleaned from contemporary accounts by friends or acquaintances, or even rivals (biased and unbiased). In this case, we are her contemporaries, and it is up to us to provide that information. Yes, fact-check all you want, but you shouldn't dismiss information unless you can dispute its validity. It is a pity that you have taken such a stand on one of the more important and influential woman composers of our time.
Am I paid by her for this? No. Do I know her? Of course, I do. I had to contact her to write the Grove article, and I was chosen to write that article because I did know her. Direct information from the subject is invaluable when trying to create a complete picture. SFerre (talk) 23:49, 31 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, that Horizons Festival concert featured Wind Dance (1989, since withdrawn) was on July 27 1990 with the NY Philharmonic conducted by Lawrence Leighton Smith. (NY Phil program book as found in the NY Phil digital archive.) Also within the archive, there are further performances of her works in 2004, 2016, and 2024. None of those pieces appear in the worklist below, as they post-date the worklist I updated for Grove in 2004. Indeed, you might look at the Sept 19, 2024 program book to verify some of the details you have scoured from this entry. SFerre (talk) 15:51, 2 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested Edits

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Add "In 1995" to the following sentence under the "Career" section:

In 1995, Shortly after completing her Guggenheim Fellowship, Thomas began teaching at the Eastman School of Music. Thomas, Augusta Read (2004-04-30). "Thomas, Augusta Read". Grove Music Online (8th ed.). Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-1-56159-263-0.


Add Section called "Works List" with the following compositions and subcategories:

Orchestral

Vigil, 1990 - concerto for cello with orchestra

Meditation,1995 - concerto for trombone with orchestra (arrangement of Vigil, 1990)

Words of the Sea, 1996

Spirit Musings, 1997 - concerto for violin with orchestra

Orbital Beacons: Concerto for Orchestra, 1998

Ceremonial, 1999

Ritual Incantations, 1999 - concerto for cello with orchestra

Ring Flourish Blaze, 2000 - 16 wind and brass musicians

Prayer Bells, 2001

Canticle Weaving, 2002 - concerto for trombone with orchestra

Light the First Light of Evening, 2002

Trainwork, 2002


Chamber and solo instrumental

Incantation, 1995 - solo violin

Spring Song, 1995 - solo cello

Passion Prayers, 1999 - solo cello and flute, clarinet, violin, piano, harp, percussion

…a circle around the sun…, 2000 - violin, cello and piano

Bells Ring Summer, 2000 - solo cello

Sun Threads, 2000–02 - string quartet

Murmurs in the Mist of Memory, 2001 - string orchestra

Rumi Settings, 2001 - violin and viola

Pulsar, 2002 - solo violin

Vocal

Ring Out Wild Bells, to the Wild Sky, 2000 - SATB chorus with orchestra

Song in Sorrow, 2000 - solo soprano with SATB chorus and orchestra

among dawn flowers, 2001 - soprano and piano

Daylight Divine, 2001 - solo soprano with children's chorus and chamber orchestra

Chanting to Paradise, 2002 - solo soprano with SATB chorus and orchestra

In My Sky at Twilight, 2002 - solo soprano with chamber orchestra

Sunlight Echoes, 2002 - chorus and orchestra

The Rub of Love, 1995 - SATB chorus

Love Songs, 1997 - SATB chorus

Music for children

Magneticfireflies, 2001 - high school band

4 Bashō Settings, 2003 - mixed SSAA children’s chorus


All above works are referenced in Thomas, Augusta Read (2004-04-30). "Thomas, Augusta Read". Grove Music Online (8th ed.). Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-1-56159-263-0.

Please let me know how best to use this citation. If anything requires additional citations, please just let me know and I can track some down! Msavannah44 (talk) 19:15, 21 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]