User talk:Scott-Led

Hello, Scott-Led, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay and continue to contribute to Wikipedia. Below are some pages you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, please see our help pages, and if you can't find what you are looking for there, please feel free to leave me a message or place {{Help me}} on this page and someone will drop by to help. We're so glad you're here! Masterhatch (talk) 15:39, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A few things...

Firstly, I noticed every edit you made was marked as "minor" yet many were not minor. Please read Help:Minor edit. If you aren't sure if your edit is minor, best to not check the minor edit box. Secondly, I noticed you added references to the headings. Please don't do that. See Help:Referencing for beginners for help with references. Thirdly, you added a comma inside the wiki link at Eastern Mediterranean. I reverted that. Check out Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking for help with linking. Thanks! Masterhatch (talk) 16:20, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Going through more of your edits, I see you are adding a space before adding a reference. Please make sure there's no space. I fixed those errors for you.Masterhatch (talk) 16:29, 26 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Dates

Please don't change date formats. Check out MOS:VAR. "Sometimes the MoS provides more than one acceptable style or gives no specific guidance. When either of two styles is acceptable it is generally considered inappropriate for a Wikipedia editor to change from one style to another unless there is some substantial reason for the change.". If you want to change the date format from dmy to mdy, I strongly suggest you seek consensus on the talk page. Simply announcing on the talk page that you did it is not getting consensus. Masterhatch (talk) 05:34, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi,

Your reference to me changing date formats, without, for instance, seeking consensus on the talk page, is really confusing to me. The "edit" instructions at the top of the page(s) in question, in every instance, indicate to "change to mdy format." So why do you chastise, and revert, when I am only doing what is asked of an editor? I have no particular affinity/aversion to a specific format, and it is definitely a lot of grunt work to go through an article and find/then change every date format, but if that is what is asked I will try to be compliant. But now I get yelled at for doing what is asked....it's getting to be not what I thought volunteering to edit is about. Scott-Led (talk) 20:02, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've never heard of instructions at the top of the page telling someone to change the date format. I looked back at the articles that you changed and at the top it says things like {{update|date=August 2022}}. Is that what you are talking about? Please show me where it gives instruction to change the date format. If you look at Terrorism in Russia, at the top it has {{Use dmy dates|date=March 2025}}. Many articles (dare I say most?) in Wikipedia have that template telling editors which style to use. In most cases, changing it requires consensus. If there isn't that template at the top, consensus is usually still required to change date formats. Wikipedia is a great place to volunteer. A lot of new editors, though, do get frustrated because they aren't familiar with the Wikipedia:Manual of Style. Masterhatch (talk) 21:43, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You seem to have a lot of issues with formatting. Seems like almost every edit you've made needed to be fixed. Masterhatch (talk) 05:46, 29 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

United Grain Company

I see formatting is still an issue for you. For some reason you keep putting your name twice. Like on the talk page for United Grain Company and several others i fixed the other day. And you do not need to add a summary of your edits on the talk page. Really, you don't need to (unless there may be something controversial and you need to explain what you are doing). Masterhatch (talk) 21:50, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi and thanks for your patience....

Can we take your comments one thing at a time?

"Formatting" - what exactly is at issue?

"Putting my name twice," I don't know what this refers to, as I am only doing this once, as far as I know. The form asks that I sign my edits, not my choice or an option.

"Adding a summary of my edits," this is driven by the page in which there is a pop-up form that asks exactly for the summary of my edits. I don't understand why is this an issue if the format asks for it. Remember that you dinged me for changing the date format to mdy, when the instructions on each of the affected articles directed that the format be changed. Same thing here; I am confused.

Not trying to make this hard, and I am genuinely attempting to both follow guidance and contribute to Wikipedia. I truly appreciate your help.

Thanks,

Scott Scott-Led (talk) 22:06, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

See the revert i did on the talk page of United Grain Company. That 2nd signature of yours broke the formatting. At GAZ-3307, u put your edit in the wrong place, messing up the formatting (no text before the info box). You are mistaking the info at the tops of pages as instructions. It is a good idea to add an edit summary with every edit (which you are doing well) but you do not need to summarise your edits on the talk page every time. Masterhatch (talk) 22:15, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Please...

I reverted your edit at GAZ-3307. That paragraph doesnt go at the top. I love that you want to contribute but i don't want to keep chasing all your edits. Masterhatch (talk) 21:53, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Please check out MOS:ORDER for more info on where things go on article pages. Masterhatch (talk) 22:01, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I get it!

You are mistaking the templates at the top as instructions of things to do! That's not what they are. Masterhatch (talk) 22:04, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, totally lost now. What is the edit asked for with each article, if not the items listed? And if not these, what is supposed to happen to the articles? If it says that it needs to be updated, or add citations, and I do just that, why is this considered wrong, and what is an editor supposed to take for action? The articles are, by the way, sent to my feed, presumably for editing.

GAZ-3307 said it needed updating and more citations, as well as the short description/header intro. Per the MOS -

"Order of article elements

A simple article should have, at least, (a) a lead section and (b) references. The following list includes additional standardized sections in an article. A complete article need not have all, or even most, of these elements.

Before the article content
1. Short description"

I wrote a "short description" and put before the article content...just like the MOS states. How am I not doing it right?

Thanks, Scott Scott-Led (talk) 22:15, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the article needs to be updated and more citations needed. Those are instructions, but those articles already have a short description and no where does it ask u to change the date format. Masterhatch (talk) 22:18, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Please note the I only referred, in this one, to the "short description," and that what I mentioned is exactly what you found. So if it says it needs a short description but there is already one there, I ask again what is there that the editor is supposed to do, in this one, and which is sent to me by Wikipedia for editorial attention? Scott-Led (talk) 23:05, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia never sends me anything to edit. I didn't even know that was possible. I suggest, then, that you ignore edit suggestions that don't make sense. If the article has a short description (as i described above), do nothing. If its telling you to change the date format, ignore it. Actually, i'd figure out how to turn those suggestions off and steer your own ship. Masterhatch (talk) 23:17, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You say to turn the suggestions off and steer my own ship...then what do I have to do for this article? If the hatnotes, or what I called instructions/suggestions, are removed, then why would I take any action on an article? If there's no issue, what is the purpose of having a gaggle of pro bono editors roaming the electronic wilderness of Wikipedia?

Another question - When I used to load a Wiki article, any Wiki article, it used to have the link for "Edit" where now there is a link for "Edit source."

For example:

KamAZ-4310

What happened to the Edit feature, and how can I get it back? Is this something I did inadvertently? Thanks Scott-Led (talk) 00:28, 31 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hatnotes are added by users (sometimes by bots run by users). Some hatnotes, such as the short descriptiob, should be on every article. Others, such as more citations needed, are added by users who think that article needs more sources. Once more sources are added, that hatnote can be removed. You don't need hatnotes to tell you what needs doing. Find articles that interest you and work to improve them. Those hatnotes are possible suggestions. Me, for example, i'm interested in highways, parks, lakes, rivers. I'll find short ones (stubs) and expand them. I'll do a lot of format fixes, and general clean up. Call me a nerd, but i enjoy that. Joining a project can really help. Look into Wikipedia:WikiProject Ukraine. It will have to do lists and a community that can really help you. Masterhatch (talk) 01:01, 31 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

What you are showing me for what u see (article, talk, edit source, etc) is what i see too. A while back, they changed the user interface. In the preference section, you can actually switch to older versions. Masterhatch (talk) 01:09, 31 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

On the left hand side it says "switch to old look". That might help. And at the top right hand corner click on the person icon and click preferences. Scroll down to the bottom and unclick newcomer homepage. That might help. Masterhatch (talk) 01:17, 31 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You say: "Wikipedia never sends me anything to edit. I didn't even know that was possible".

You are not getting these pages?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Homepage&source=personaltoolslink&namespace=0

Every time I go to Wikipedia this is what opens, and obviously there are both suggested articles and things to do for each. No wonder you think I'm an idiot, you are on a totally different wavelength. Guess being an editor for 20 years you have been not kept up to date on what goes out to new editors. Scott-Led (talk) 00:51, 31 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I don't get that (didnt even know about it). Looks like that can be turned on/off in prefetences. And no, i never thought you were an idiot. Masterhatch (talk) 01:05, 31 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If the article already has a short description, you do nothing... {{Short description|Village in ...}} . That IS the short description. Masterhatch (talk) 22:19, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The top of the article has information templates (Hatnotes), not necessarily instructions. Examples: {{Short description|Provincial electoral district in Manitoba, Canada}} that is the short description. No further action required. {{Use Canadian English|date=August 2025}} that states the style of english the article uses. No action required. {{Use mdy dates|date=August 2025}} that states the date format. No action required. {{update|date=August 2022}} the article needs updating. Something to do! {{Orphan|date=August 2025}} something to do! (Wikipedia:WikiProject Orphanage). Those are just some examples of the "Hatnotes". For more info, see Wikipedia:Hatnote. I hope this helps. Masterhatch (talk) 23:01, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So on the GAZ-3307 article the Hatnotes state:

"This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page. (Learn how and when to remove these messages)

This article needs additional citations for verification. (November 2018)

This article needs to be updated. (January 2021)"

And I did exactly what was indicated: 1. I added additional citations. 2. I updated the article. You then revert my changes, which I spent a couple of hours researching, to properly address what I took as items to be corrected. So do I need to just address what I propose, on the talk page, and not just publish, or is there something else? Scott-Led (talk) 23:13, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You put the paragraph at the top above the infobox instead of working it into the body of the article (MOS:ORDER). Re-add that info to the body and it will be a great addition. I think u will be a great editor once you figure out how things work. Masterhatch (talk) 23:22, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]