User talk:Clovermoss

  1. Home
  2. Wiki

Newbie Central

[edit]

Are you a newcomer to Wikipedia? Here are some resources that you may find helpful:

Question

[edit]

How are you, Clover? I wanted to ask if you would like to review my FA nom of Hunter Schafer? Or either of my two GA noms? I promise to review or expand or cleanup whatever article you want in exchange. HSLover/DWF (talk) 09:01, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@DoctorWhoFan91: Answering the question about how I am is very complicated these days. My current feelings are probably best explained by this song.
As for GA/FA reviews, I've never actually done one of those before. I have a lot of on-wiki and off-wiki obligations that I'm trying to follow up on right now, so adding even more to my plate is probably not the best idea. I can only do so much at once. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 15:52, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I hope you feel better asap, no matter how bad you are feeling *hugs* (the link does not work).
Okay, got it- keep up the good work- I always see thougtful remarks and edits in your contributioms. Also, feel free to ask for help in editing something if you ever need it, it seems we share many topics of editing interest. HSLover/DWF (talk) 16:36, 5 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That's odd, the link works for me. Anyways, it's a song called "Everything's Not Awesome". I'm in the "we should maybe aim for not bad, because not bad right now would be real great" phase of it. I'm glad you find my comments/edits helpful, I tend to overthink and feel that I'm mediocre at best or worry that I'm messing things up somehow. I'm trying to work on my self-esteem and assertiveness, but it's a long battle. I do think I'm making some progress on that front, though.
As for content work, my main project right now is trying to get Jehovah's Witnesses ready for FAC. I've been trying to figure out where to best split content from the Government interactions section because there's quite a bit of overlap between Jehovah's Witnesses and governments and Persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses and I don't want to accidently make a possible WP:POVFORK problem worse. But that's probably one of the few cases where our editing interests do not overlap. You might find my comment at Talk:Ambition (character trait)#Possible sources useful for expansion? That's probably more down your alley. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 15:50, 6 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Might be a geographical thing. Yeah, that's a hard phase of sadness/grief- hope you feel better soon. You're not mediocre, you're a great editor, probably one of the best, in terms of conduct. I do hope your self esteem and assertiveness increase a lot.
Yeah, JWs are basically the only thing I have seen you edit that I have no intrest to edit. Oh yeah, that is definitely more down my alley, any/every feminist source is- thank you, those are really nice sources. HSLover/DWF (talk) 17:30, 6 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! Sure, I can take a look at your FA nomination soon. I’ll go through it and share feedback when I get some free time. Thanks for offering to review something in return, that’s appreciated. Yasmin9519 (talk) 05:21, 31 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

[edit]

Hi and thanks for your recent participation in AfD. I would like to hear your thoughts about the process. Please check this survey if you are willing to respond.Czarking0 (talk) 02:00, 6 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Czarking0: Interesting but I think I'll pass for now given my participation in AfD is rather minimal compared to others. That said, may I suggest creating a subpage for keeping everything together? I feel like it would've been very unwieldy to keep track of everything I've done with editor reflections if I hadn't. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 20:15, 6 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Multiple people had a similar request so there is now User:Czarking0/Survey responses Czarking0 (talk) 20:24, 6 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Elections Response Draft

[edit]

Hello, in multiple places you have indicated you are writing a response to recent ballot disqualifications from the WMF BoT. I would like to see your response and I am sure others are in a similar boat. I'll subscribe to this thread. Can you give a courtesy ping here when you have posted it? Czarking0 (talk) 15:57, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I will keep you updated. I'm hoping to have something ready within the next 48 hours if everything works out the way I'm intending it to. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 18:15, 7 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Czarking0: The petition that everyone has been waiting for can be found at m:2025 WMF Board reform petition. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 04:52, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You have me on there now. I was surprised with the membership idea. I had not heard that before. It seems natural for there to be some portion of membership / member control but I would be surprised if this was not already considered and rejected. Czarking0 (talk) 04:58, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

September 2025 NPP backlog drive – Points award

[edit]
The Working Woman's Barnstar
This award is given in recognition to Clovermoss for accumulating at least 10 points the September 2025 NPP backlog drive. Your contributions played a part in the 19,000+ articles reviewed during the drive. Thank you so much for taking part and contributing to help reduce the backlog! Utopes (talk / cont) 03:49, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – October 2025

[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (September 2025).

Administrator changes

removed

CheckUser changes

removed Vanamonde93

Arbitration

  • After a motion, arbitration enforcement page protections no longer need to be logged in the AELOG. A bot now automatically posts protections at WP:AELOG/P. To facilitate this bot, protection summaries must include a link to the relevant CT page (e.g. [[WP:CT/BLP]]), and you will receive talk page reminders if you forget to specify the contentious topic but otherwise indicate it is an AE action.
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:56, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wikimedia Apps newsletter – Third quarter of 2025

[edit]

In this edition, we’ll walk you through the major updates, experiments, and improvements that took place in the Wikipedia mobile apps during July, August, and September.

iOS

[edit]

Tabbed Browsing

[edit]
  • In July, we released the first iteration of Tabbed Browsing to all users.
  • Our 30-day A/B test showed mixed but promising results: while logged-out user retention gains were modest compared to Android, survey feedback was overwhelmingly positive (93% rated the feature “Neutral to Very Satisfactory”).
  • We continued improvements throughout August and September, including a design review for “More Dynamic Tabs,” a new tab controller, and bug fixes such as inconsistent tab sizing on iPad mini and tooltip issues.

Personalized Wikipedia Year in Review

[edit]
  • Work continued on Year in Review upgrades, with spikes exploring features such as sharing entire reviews, custom app icons, and showing which geographies users read about the most.
  • We also began preparing overall app data to share richer collective insights.
[edit]
  • We improved code behind the History tab and recent searches to prepare for future navigational changes.

Other iOS Updates

[edit]
  • Released several app versions (7.8.1 through 7.8.3), with smoke tests completed.
  • Resolved numerous bugs including crashes (tooltips, gestures, search), iPad layout issues, and visual problems with captions, Quick Facts, and images in Dark Mode.
  • Added a new REST endpoint for remote configuration and upgraded fundraising configurations to support A/B testing.
  • Verified continued compatibility with multi-factor authentication (MFA).

Android

[edit]

Customizable Donation Reminder Experiment

[edit]
  • In August, we launched the Customizable Donation Reminder experiment in Italy. The reminder will allow users to decide if they want to be reminded to donate, and how often.

Activity Tab Experiment

[edit]
  • By September, we finalized core modules, onboarding, instrumentation, and validation tasks needed for the A/B test of the new Activity Tab against the Edit Tab.
  • This marks a major step toward testing whether an Activity space can improve multi-day engagement and retention.

Bug Fixes & Improvements

[edit]
  • Fixed crashes with image gallery long-press, saved article syncing for Chinese, edit previews, and special links.
  • Addressed rendering and Dark Mode issues affecting math tags, GIFs, and citation numbers.

Other Android Updates

[edit]
  • We released a new beta and conducted multiple regression tests to ensure stability.
  • We added a general-purpose remote configuration REST endpoint, aligned with iOS.
  • Continued technical debt cleanup, including removing allowMainThreadQueries and adding suspend to DAO functions.
  • Upgraded fundraising configuration to support A/B testing.

Cross-Platform

[edit]
  • Both apps upgraded fundraising A/B test support and created a shared remote configuration REST endpoint.
  • We began tracking Account Vanish events on iOS and Android for privacy features.

Looking Ahead

[edit]

This quarter marked a big step forward on Tabbed Browsing, Activity Tab, and Year in Review — three projects aimed at making Wikipedia more personal, navigable, and engaging. We also advanced donation experiments and backend improvements to support future flexibility.

Make sure you’re subscribed to this newsletter to stay in the loop — and thank you for being part of the journey!


ARamadan-WMF 02:12, 14 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin 2025 Issue 19

[edit]
Here is a quick overview of highlights from the Wikimedia Foundation since our last issue on September 26. Please help translate.

Upcoming and current events and conversations
Let's Talk continues


Annual Goals Progress on Infrastructure
See also newsletters: Wikimedia Apps · Growth · Product Safety and Integrity · Readers · Research · Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia · Tech News · Language and Internationalization · other newsletters on MediaWiki.org

Dark Mode will soon be available on all Wikimedia sites.
  • Mobile Editing: Insights on mobile web editing on Wikipedia in 2025 are now available. This report highlights that ~95% of IP mobile users editing via wikitext open the editor but make no changes at all, a vast untapped potential. It also pinpoints where contributors most often drop off.
  • Dark Mode: Dark Mode user interface will be rolled out on all Wikimedia sites on October 29. All anonymous users of Wikimedia sites will have the option to activate a color scheme that features light-colored text on a dark background. This is designed to provide a more comfortable reading experience, especially in low-light situations.
  • Community wishlist extension: The new Community Wishlist extension has been released. This will allow users to add tags to their wishes to better categorise them, and (in a future iteration) to filter them by status, tags and focus areas. It will also be possible to support individual wishes again, as requested by the community in many instances.
  • Paste Check: 22 Wikis are now testing a new Edit Check feature, Paste Check, to help avoid and fight copyright violations. When editors paste text into an article, Paste Check prompts them to confirm the origin and licensing of the content.
  • Tone Check: The Wikimedia Foundation is working on a new check for newcomers: Tone check. Using a prediction model, this check will encourage editors to improve the tone of their edits.
  • Search Suggestions: Search Suggestions was deployed on English Wikipedia. Upon clicking an empty search bar, logged-out users see suggestions of articles for further reading. The feature is available on both desktop and mobile.
  • Unsupported Tools Working Group: A new Unsupported Tools Working Group has been formed to help prioritize and review requests for support of unmaintained extensions, gadgets, bots, and tools. The group has chosen Video2Commons as the first tool for its pilot cycle. The group will explore ways to improve and sustain the tool over the coming months.
  • Tech News: Read updates from Tech News week 40 and 41 including about Sub-referencing – a new feature to re-use references with different details.
  • Wikimedia Research Showcase: Don't miss the next Wikimedia Research Showcase, "Celebrating 13 Years: Wikidata's Role in Learning and Culture" taking place on October 15 at 16:30 UTC.

Annual Goals Progress on Volunteer Support
See also blogs: Global Advocacy blog · Global Advocacy Newsletter · Policy blog · WikiLearn News · list of movement events

Foundation statements

Other Movement curated newsletters & news
See also: Diff blog · Goings-on · Planet Wikimedia · Signpost (en) · Kurier (de) · Actualités du Wiktionnaire (fr) · Regards sur l’actualité de la Wikimedia (fr) · Wikimag (fr) · Education · GLAM · The Wikipedia Library · Milestones · Wikidata · Central and Eastern Europe · other newsletters

Subscribe or unsubscribe · Help translate

For information about the Bulletin and to read previous editions, see the project page on Meta-Wiki. Let askcac(_AT_)wikimedia.org know if you have any feedback or suggestions for improvement!


MediaWiki message delivery 14:50, 14 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Cathode ray terrors (03:40, 17 October 2025)

[edit]

Hello mentor. How do I add something to Wikipedia? I would like to add my band to it. I feel there is enough content now.

Thank you --Cathode ray terrors (talk) 03:40, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Cathode ray terrors, it's unlikely that your personal band would meet our notability guidelines. That's probably not the news you want to hear, sorry. Let me know if there's anything else you'd want to edit about that I can help you with. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 15:04, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Something happened yesterday

[edit]

Talk page watchers may be interested in [1]. It was really upsetting to be treated like that. I ended up leaving the session to go cry in the hallway so I didn't say anything I regretted in response to that. But what happened really wasn't okay, especially from the CEO of the Wikimedia Foundation. The whole session began with how supposedly the board cares about listening to us, but actions show that's really just words. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 11:00, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm so sorry @Clovermoss, that's such a disappointing and disrespectful response. Thanks @ViridianPenguin for having Clovermoss's back. ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · email · global) 11:09, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Seems like we need a more drastic way to let the wmf know that they need to be more accountable to the community. (t · c) buidhe 15:04, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You deserve better treatment. Maybe it's the Age of Disappointing Leadership. Buster Seven Talk (UTC) 15:12, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That too (t · c) buidhe 15:25, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Buidhe: What would you suggest? I did the petition. ViridianPenguin mentioned blackouts, but I'd prefer we don't go to that level of extreme right away. Surely there has to be some middle steps here we could take. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 20:35, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I would support banners or blackouts if the wmf does not give satisfactory response to community concerns about accountability. (t · c) buidhe 20:43, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Buidhe: Do I need to be the one to lead such efforts for them to have the same power? Between my petition, the conversation with the board of trustees session, my lightning talk, the elections committee session, and just the events of the past few days generally, I'm absolutely exhausted. I know I'm doing the right thing but it's still hard to keep on going. I could lead such an effort if nessecary, but I wouldn't be opposed if someone else wanted to take up the mantle right now. There's only so much I can do on an individual level when I don't have the concrete authority to change much. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 21:26, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think there are a lot of eyes on it right now so it doesn't necessarily need to be driven by you personally. (t · c) buidhe 21:47, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Clovermoss you have already done so much and this work can take a lot out of you. Thank you for what you have done to raise the profile of this issue so far, and don't feel obliged to keep pushing. As buidhe says, there are others who can share the load (though I'm not sure of the best way to nudge people who could help). ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · email · global) 22:21, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that you shouldn't have to carry all of the burden here. I also don't think that a further action should be directed at all of our readers, because this really is "inside baseball", so I'd oppose a blackout or a reader-facing banner, as I suspect many other editors also would. Maybe there could be something like a watchlist notice, or something like that. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:31, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@MIskander-WMF: I've heard from a few people today that have implied that what you said does not align with your own values and that you regret it. It's impossible for me to know if that's an accurate reflection or if it isn't when it's not coming from you personally. Given what you said to me was public (I have to say it seems somewhat strategic that the breakout sessions weren't recorded), I think I'm owed a public apology as well. I don't think that what you said was nessecarily out of malice, but it definitely felt like saying the quiet part out loud. That people feel like we don't have the authority to make these kinds of decisions even though we're the only reason any of this is possible in the first place. People haven't felt listened to for years and it's very frustrating to have people continually say that they're listening but not actually be doing so. It feels more like a pretense with pretty words than an actual desire to learn from the people who have dedicated years of their lives to the projects. There's some listening that's happening but only a fraction of what it should be at. The bar is so low that anything is seen as an improvement.

I'm very much an open book and I've learned a lot from what's probably thousands of conversations with other volunteers over time. I find these frank conversations have led me to have an understanding of the broader community resentment that a lot of people at the top don't seem to understand. Like they understand there's problems but not the depth of the issue or why it happens. It's probably why the way I even found out you were stepping down was because someone told me I should be your replacement. I don't think I really have the on paper qualifications for that and said as much, but again, I feel like it speaks to the seriousness of the problem that people feel like I'd be able to actually change things for once. They think that my approach to listening is the skill you can't teach and everything else can be learned, I guess.

I never really got a chance to elaborate on my concerns yesterday, but I think that forced cohesiveness is actively anti-ethical to our values as a movement. Arguments are made stronger when people disagree with each other and there's so many voices you miss if they aren't even in the room. The people who attend conferences such as this one are already the people most aligned with the WMF perspective. What you said about the community seats and the appointed seats being in conflict with each other speaks to a broader issue. The problem isn't that people are disagreeing but what's causing that conflict in the first place. I don't think our board of trustees should be in conflict with the underlying communities because there just shouldn't be that disconnect in priorities to begin with. Many great organizations have failed over time. We've survived in spite of our leadership and not because of it. But I worry for our future as a movement if the current state of things continues. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 19:32, 19 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Clovermoss - You heard right that I regret what happened and it is not how I ever want to show up as a leader. I’ve been packing and moving since the conference ended so I will offer my apologies here – I am sorry for what I said and how I reacted.
First, I agree that being a good listener is critical for anyone who wants to be an effective CEO and it is always the way I try to engage. I was under a lot of strain following the events of the weekend (thanks KevinL for mentioning this in the other discussion), which meant I wasn’t at my best. Still, my strain should not have been directed at you.
Second, I can weigh in on some of the points you’ve raised. When it comes to the diversity of viewpoints on the Board, I actually think we agree. Arguments are made stronger when people disagree. Decisions are more solid and more responsive once there’s been debate. The point I was trying to make was not that trustees all need to agree (in fact, they often don’t), but they do need to be able to work together as a cohesive group. They need to be able to weigh many factors and come to consensus on what are usually very difficult questions. They need to be able to make these decisions and then partner with the CEO on how to move forward. When they can’t reach a consensus, it is not possible for a CEO to do their job. So the work I was trying to describe to you has been about improving processes in the last few years that allow Trustees to build consensus as a group in spite of individual disagreement, similar to what happens on the wikis.
If you want to talk more 1:1, please let me know here or at miskander@wikimedia.org MIskander-WMF (talk) 00:57, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@MIskander-WMF While you are apologizing, perhaps you can apologize to me as well? Your conditional non-apology and weak I don't plan to engage further is a very bad way to treat someone, especially a volunteer.
I should also note that it kinda sucks when the WMF has a CEO that uses her enwiki account, other than here to apologize for an arrogant and dumb remark, only to talk about fundraising (twice in four years). Do you understand how bad that looks? The WMF exists to serve the community. Polygnotus (talk) 08:15, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It's entirely fair to say the whole thing left a bad taste in more than one mouth, and a private apology to Clovermoss sort of misses the entire point of her objection. BusterD (talk) 08:36, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The WMF exists to serve the community. I heartily agree. And when the community (from all nations) can see the foundation gives us organization without representation, the community might drift toward other endeavors. Given the wiki's potential balkanization, I'd rather they give us a reasonable voice, or face an inevitable collapse in participation (and donation). BusterD (talk) 10:48, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well I still think the WMF is fixable, but it will be rather difficult to convince Clovermoss to apply for the job as CEO. And while this is half-joking, I don't think alleged experience as CEO of a large organization is that valuable compared to the far more important people skills that Clovermoss possesses. Everyone can learn the skills required to become an effective CEO, but learning people skills is much more difficult, especially later in life. Polygnotus (talk) 10:57, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Criticism of the WMF is fair game, but frankly this criticism of Maryana personally is naive and condescending. Perhaps she made a mistake, but the idea that—in an organisation we criticize for its bureaucracy, no less—you/we/whoever can extrapolate this to her job suitability (and use it to make personal digs at her) is just unfair and unempathetic, especially given the difficult circumstances of the relevant interaction.
The WMF is far from perfect, and I'm sure they know that. But I've seen in many places this idea that the ideals of untrained volunteers are enough to steer a politically contentious global non-profit. And honestly, if I were WMF CEO, I would be insulted, because it would show me that I'm being criticized by people with zero understanding of what the role is about.
Editors are great at many things, and I think we should have a lot of input in what the WMF does. But this notion that one of us could be CEO—let alone do it better than an experienced professional—is absurd. Giraffer (talk) 18:11, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Giraffer: Well, I partially disagree with you, but I also partially disagree with myself, so I toned it down. There is no magic CEO powder, and since we have 112,780 active editors it would be mathematically impossible if there was no suitable candidate among us. But that thing with that guy with that gun was horrible and I was shocked when I read it. And humans are human. Polygnotus (talk) 22:28, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, it was pretty horrible. I'm still processing that I ran for my life a few days ago. Doesn't mean I deserved to be treated terribly by the literal CEO for simply disagreeing with something she said, but it makes it slightly more understandable. I appreciate that she actually apologized to me. I'll probably take her up on talking later when I'm less overwhelmed, as there's still a lot of concerns that I have about the way the board operates, but the past few months have been a special kind of hell for me on a personal level and I need some time to put myself back together. But I started the reform petition for a reason and I intend to see it through.
I'm flattered you're the third person to tell me you think I'd make a good CEO, and to some extent I'm sure I'd do less terribly than one might expect under those circumstances, but surely there's someone more qualified than me who has both a background within the movement and the organizational skills required for such a role. I basically spent my entire childhood learning how to cope with complicated social dynamics so there's a reason I'm good at that kind of thing. That doesn't mean I don't get frustrated when I'm following all those rules and other people are held to a different standard, even if I'm more likely to deal with it in a healthier way. It also doesn't mean it makes sense from me to jump straight to a top level governance role when I've never been a manager in any capacity. I wouldn't know what to do with a crazy amount of money because I've been living near-poverty for most of my life, even if I'd trust other people who do have that experience. So there's a bunch of nuance there even if it might not be as crazy as one might assume. I've always taken this sort of suggestion to be less a reflection of me personally and more a statement about how bad things are that people think I might do better. I don't have anything personally against Maryana, but I do hope that her successor has a personal stake/background in the community because I feel like that's partially what's resulted in some decisions that made people so angry over the years from WMF CEOs in a general sense. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 23:07, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This is why finding a good CEO is so difficult, we need raw brainpower, a great communicator with people skills, someone who understands money, understands the direction we need to go, has experience leading, a thick skin and crisis management skills. Such people are rare, and they can choose a much easier life than to be the CEO of the WMF.
Many Wikipedians I've come across excel at some of those categories, but usually not all of them.
I think the fix is to split up the role. Why search for one CEO that is great at everything when we can have multiple people who each deal with the stuff they are good at. A triumvirate could outperform any individual person. Polygnotus (talk) 00:04, 22 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There are examples of executives who complemented each other effectively – the ones I'm familiar with are with the Disney company, with Walt as the creative person and his brother Roy as the finance guy, or the Michael Eisner/Frank Wells duo. A good chief executive knows their weak spots and hires supporting staff to accommodate. But someone has to be the ultimate decision maker; history has not been kind to companies that try to run with multiple people holding equal power at the top. isaacl (talk) 03:16, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. The person with the people skills who embodies our ideals and understands our past and future has the final say, and then we just need one woman who knows the tech-stack (and -world) and one woman who understands money. Bonus points if they have some life experience. Polygnotus (talk) 03:41, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I apolgize for not making myself clear, as that was not the message I intended to convey. Effective chief executives must be strong at a wide variety of skills, and for a large organization, organizational structure is a key one. A duopoly or triumvirate doesn't generally work out for companies. isaacl (talk) 18:11, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Isaacl Effective chief executives must be strong at a wide variety of skills Indeed, but they don't necessarily require understanding the entire tech-stack and -world, or even having a complete understanding of the financial stuff. An effective CEO delegates, shares responsibility, and knows when to ask for help. Polygnotus (talk) 18:16, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I was responding specifically about the suggestion of a triumvirate. isaacl (talk) 18:20, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I am very imprecise with words because precision is the enemy of understanding. Polygnotus (talk) 18:36, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Out of curiosity, have you ever read the essay, "The Cathedral and the Bazaar"? To use the metaphor of the essay, i think, for better or worse, that WMF is a cathedral nestled in the Bazaar that is Wikimedia. I think some of the friction around the position of the CEO is that what makes a good leader of a "cathedral" is often the opposite of what makes a good leader of the Bazaar. So by virtue of how things are organized, it encourages very different leadership cultures, which never fully see eye to eye because they value different things. At the same time, the office of WMF CEO has sort of become a first among equals of Wikimedia so is expected to bridge that gap somehow and be true to both groups. I don't really know where i'm going with this, but i think the cause of much friction is structural rather then up to individuals, and any fixes would also have to be structural. Bawolff (talk) 00:01, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the link. BusterD (talk) 14:32, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Bawolff: 8. Given a large enough beta-tester and co-developer base, almost every problem will be characterized quickly and the fix obvious to someone. Or, less formally, Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow. Linus's Law doesn't seem to be working for MediaWiki, given the large volume of longstanding bugs in Phabricator. But the problem with being clever and original in software design is that it gets to be a habit—you start reflexively making things cute and complicated when you should be keeping them robust and simple. I wonder if this is happening with all the complex objects and "factories" in the code I've been trying to work on. mw:Developers/Maintainers#MediaWiki core lists components which have stewards and individual maintainers. The code I've been trying to improve is listed as Unassigned. At least Krinkle just gave it its own table row, a couple days ago. I guess that's progress. In a bazaar a single core developer is common, and one to three is typical but there are areas where MediaWiki core has no core developer, and the cathedral is not prioritizing and assigning the core developer role to anybody. This has frustrated me. A bazaar project coordinator or leader must have good people and communications skills. Wikimedia is lacking a good bazaar project coordinator or leader, like Linus Torvalds. – wbm1058 (talk) 12:09, 24 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Linus's Law doesn't seem to be working for MediaWiki, given the large volume of longstanding bugs in Phabricator. I wonder if all software projects, open source and private, suffer from this though. Don't they all have a backlog of tickets? Basically, 1) it is easier to report a bug or have a feature idea than it is to code it up. 2) There are never enough devs. 3) The whole industry appears to be cyclical, with teams getting a repo's code top-of-mind, then doing a burst of work, then moving on to other repos for a couple years, then finally coming back to the repo and doing another burst of work once things get especially buggy and the repo becomes the squeaky wheel.
The nice thing about the open source movement is that volunteers can jump in and work on whatever they want, mitigating (but not eliminating) the above. –Novem Linguae (talk) 12:20, 24 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly, ESR lays it on a little thick. I think its a useful metaphor about different organization structures, but its not quite as magic as esr implies. That said, i would describe Wikipedia as the Bazaar-style project not mediawiki. Bawolff (talk) 16:03, 24 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Question from RonnMosz (10:56, 20 October 2025)

[edit]

Hi, How can I retrieve my mailaddress that I used for this account. I would like to log in to my Wikipedia account from another device but I do not have the password. --RonnMosz (talk) 10:56, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@RonnMosz: Your email address should be visible if you click "preferences". Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 17:02, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Ok thanks RonnMosz (talk) 09:39, 22 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 20 October 2025

[edit]
And the "Global Resource Distribution Committee" emerges.
Two shortlisted WMF Board candidates removed from the ballot.
Who was bumped and why?
...while Musk prepares to launch "Grokipedia".
Serial-killer miniseries, deceased scientist, government shutdowns and Sandalwood hit "Kantara" crowd the tubes.
Don't get too excited before you read this.
* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:40, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Growth News #35

[edit]

A quarterly update from the Growth team on our work to improve the new editor experience.

New releases

[edit]

English Wikipedia gets "Add a Link" Structured Task

[edit]

We released the "Add a Link" Structured Task to 100% of accounts at English Wikipedia on Tuesday, September 2nd (before then it was available to 20% of accounts).

Growth features for Wikidata

[edit]

After examining if the Growth features and Mentorship could be adapted to Wikidata, we activated the Growth features on Beta Wikidata to allow for testing and discussion (T400937). Although some features, like Suggested Edits, are Wikipedia-specific, the Growth team designed most features to be more wiki-agnostic.

Work in progress

[edit]

Revise Tone Structured Task

[edit]

The Growth team is making progress on the technical architecture, onboarding design, and early user testing. We are targeting an A/B test before the end of this year, with constructive edits by newcomers as the primary success metric.

[edit]

The machine learning team has been working on a new model that can suggest links to more languages, including Urdu, Chinese, and Japanese Wikipedias. We are starting to release the “Add a Link” feature to Wikipedias that weren’t supported by the previous model.

Add a link, which can be configured by the community locally, increases the chance that a new contributor will make their first edit and then continue to participate in Wikipedia.

Research

[edit]

The Growth team is involved in several research initiatives to help guide our future work:

Progression System – We have published initial findings from interviews with 10 English and French Wikipedia newcomers. The research examined motivations, challenges, and feedback on a prototype system intended to help editors build confidence, develop skills, and contribute more constructively over time.

Mobile Web Editing Research – This project combines quantitative and qualitative data, community feedback, and user journey analysis to identify possible ways to enhance the mobile editing experience.

Newcomers Survey – This project surveys successful newcomers on English Wikipedia to understand their early editing experiences, tool use, and community interactions.

Community events

[edit]

The Growth team participated in several community events to listen, share, and collaborate on improving newcomer experiences across Wikimedia projects.

Wikimania - Organizers as key partners to support newcomers' growth in our movement

This session invited organizers to share how they introduce newcomers to Growth features and the challenges they encounter. The discussion focused on common newcomer questions and opportunities to strengthen collaboration in supporting new editors.

Wikimania - Lightning Talk: Structured Tasks

This talk demonstrated how Structured Tasks help newcomers take their first successful steps on Wikipedia. It shared impact data, community configurations, and a demo of “Add a Link,” illustrating how these tasks make editing more accessible and sustainable, particularly for mobile contributors.

Wikimania - Building a Sustainable Future for Wikimedia Contributors

With active editor numbers declining, the Contributors Strategy aims to create a clearer, more engaging path for participation. This session, led by the WMF Contributors group with involvement from the Editing, Growth, Moderator Tools, and Connection (formerly Campaigns) teams, highlighted efforts to streamline contributor experiences, offer structured and mobile-friendly workflows, and foster meaningful engagement. Participants learned about ongoing initiatives and shared feedback to help shape a more inclusive and sustainable future for Wikimedia contributors.

CEE Meeting - Retaining beginners and improving content moderation: an inclusive and sustainable future for Wikipedia contributors

Many communities face a decline in volunteer engagement. Newcomers often leave soon after joining, while experienced editors struggle to manage increasingly complex workflows and overwhelming backlogs. We presented the Contributors Strategy and the different features and workflows that can help communities to address these challenges. We listened to the specific needs of the CEE communities to help guide the Contributors teams' work.

Growth team's newsletter prepared by the Growth team and posted by bot • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

10:23, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

Where did my last edit go?

[edit]

I edited my page on Panorama Ray in August, adding references but i can't find it now. What happened? Where did it go? Thanks for any help Rosemary Kimble (talk) 22:19, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Special:Contributions/Rosemary Kimble. I think you are looking for Draft:Panorama Ray (t · c) buidhe 22:30, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Apology

[edit]

Hi Clover. It was really nice talking to you today. I'm glad we got to reach, or at least start reaching, some closure about what happened between us in February. I think I have a much better understanding now of what was motivating you in that situation, and I hope you have a better understanding of what was motivating me. You've heard a much longer version of this apology already, which I won't bore your talkpage watchers with, but I think there's two aspects that do demand I clarify the record publicly.

First, I'll reïterate my apology from March for the tone I took in the initial comment on the article's talkpage that you objected to. As I said in March, my anger was almost entirely directed at a third party who later admitted he was editing in bad faith, but from your point of view of course that makes no difference. It wasn't fair to lump your good-faith efforts, whatever issues I had with them, in with his trolling, and I apologize for that.

Secondly, I owe you a much more serious apology for how I responded to your objection to that comment. The tone issue was an error of degree rather than kind, but this part was a pure assumption of bad faith on my part. You expressed the stress that the situation was causing you, which should have come as no surprise to me, who was similarly stressed as the article's subject, and had been similarly stressed in situations before where an article I wrote generated immediate editorial controversy. And I know you well enough to know that you are very frank about your emotions, and that while some people might say that sort of thing manipulatively, you are just an honest person and want people to know how you are feeling. If there was a need for me to say anything at all (and there probably wasn't), it would have been to encourage you to rephrase what you said. But assuming that that was your intent was simply unacceptable on my part, a bad-faith assumption inconsistent both of what I know of you as a person and what I know of you as an editor. You didn't deserve that, and it was particularly inappropriate for me to bring up AN/I.

I hope you know I immensely appreciate what you do for this project. Not once in all this have I questioned your commitment to Wikipedia's mission, or that you are a strong positive force in this community. If anyone does question that on the basis of a single string of miscommunications and resulting recriminations amidst high emotions, you're welcome to tell them that I say they're wrong. Not that I think my opinion ought to matter hugely, but for whatever it's worth.

All the best. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (they|xe|🤷) 12:21, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Tamzin: I appreciate the apology. I wish it would've happened a long time ago, but late is so much better than never. It bothers me when things are left unresolved. Part of what made that experience suck so much was trying so hard to be diligent and do everything right, being in a catch-22 situation no matter what I did, and then being kicked down even further when I expressed a moment of vulnerability and explanation for why I suddenly stopped responding to feedback. I would've been okay with you changing your mind from ambivalent to not wanting the article at all... it was the way you reacted that upset me the most, especially because I had generally valued your judgement before then and respected you as a colleague. I hated being treated like I had done something indescribably awful when I hadn't done anything like that. I appreciate you saying I didn't deserve it. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 19:40, 1 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I also wish I could have said this sooner. I don't think there's anything I said above that I wasn't prepared to say by March or April. When someone says they don't feel comfortable talking to me, I take that very seriously, and so I felt my hands were tied and that the only appropriate thing I could do was only interact with you in situations where you engaged first. Having now heard your perspective on the same eight-month period, I realize that may amount to a kind of comedy of errors, but I'll always err on the side of giving someone space when they've asked for it; I learned the lesson the hard way when I was younger that when you think "Oh, this person's probably ready to hear from me", they often aren't. Either way, I'm glad we've been able to have the conversations we've had, and look forward to this receding farther in the rear-view mirror. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (they|xe|🤷) 19:54, 1 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well, for future reference, me not wanting to talk to someone in private does not equate to not wanting to talk to someone in public. I've discovered lately that some people find that reaction confusing and usually prefer to talk about sensitive subjects in private. But I've learned from experience that people who treat me a certain way in public will often treat me much worse when others aren't around and it's something I try to avoid for that reason. After the conversation on your talk page, it seemed unwise to try to discuss it at all unless you took the initiative. I got the impression other people wanted me to move on already even if that's not something that's that easy to do when you've been hurt and just want some acknowledgement that what happened was wrong. But I say what I mean and I mean what I say on my userpage. I don't think I'd ever get upset at someone apologizing to me unless it was "sorry not sorry" type apology. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin 2025 Issue 20

[edit]
Here is a quick overview of highlights from the Wikimedia Foundation since our last issue on October 11. Please help translate.

Upcoming and current events and conversations
Let's Talk continues


Annual Goals Progress on Infrastructure
See also newsletters: Wikimedia Apps · Growth · Product Safety and Integrity · Readers · Research · Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia · Tech News · Language and Internationalization · other newsletters on MediaWiki.org

The naming contest for the new Wikimedia project, known until now as Abstract Wikipedia, is ongoing.
  • Making it easier to say thanks: Users on most wikis will now have the ability to thank a comment directly from the talk page it appears on. Before this change, thanking could only be done by visiting the revision history of the talk page.
  • Account security: Improvements to account security and two-factor authentication (2FA) features were enabled across all wikis. Another part of the project is making 2FA generally available to all users. Along with editors with advanced privileges, such as administrators and bureaucrats, 40% of editors now have access to 2FA. You can check if you have access at Special:AccountSecurity.
  • Abstract Wikipedia: The naming contest for the new Wikimedia project, known until now as Abstract Wikipedia, is ongoing. Voting is now open until November 3.
  • Tech News: Read updates from Tech News week 42 and 43 including the community-submitted tasks that were resolved last week.
  • Wikimedia apps: The Wikipedia iOS App launched an A/B/C test of improvements to the Tabbed browsing feature into Beta for select regions & languages. Called “More dynamic tabs”, the experiment adds user-requested improvements and introduces article recommendations within the tabs overview, showing “Did you know” or “Because you read” content depending on how many tabs are open.
  • CampaignEvents extension: Campaignevents extension will be deployed to all remaining wikis during the week of 17 November 2025. The extension currently includes three features: Event Registration, Collaboration List, and Invitation List. For this rollout, Invitation List will not be enabled on Wikifunctions and MediaWiki unless requested by those communities.
  • Event registration tool: Autoconfirmed users on small and medium wikis with the extension can now use Event Registration without the Event Organizer right. This feature lets organizers enable registration, manage participants, and lets users register with one click instead of signing event pages.


Annual Goals Progress on Volunteer Support
See also blogs: Global Advocacy blog · Global Advocacy Newsletter · Policy blog · WikiLearn News · list of movement events

  • Digital safety: Explore how you can help make Wikimedia safer by taking our new self-paced course, Safety for Young Wikimedians.
  • Wikimedia Core Curriculum: The Wikimedia Foundation has developed seven online video learning modules covering the core English Wikipedia policies. You are invited to use, adapt, and translate the course.
  • Advocacy: The Wikimedia Foundation has signed onto a statement that calls on governments and UN bodies to keep discussions about the future of internet governance accessible to non-government actors like industry and civil society. This statement is part of ongoing joint advocacy with affiliates to influence UN discussions about the future of internet governance such as the Global Digital Compact campaign and WSIS+20 deliberations.
  • GLAM: The Wikimedia Foundation and several affiliates have signed onto the Open Heritage Statement, which supports galleries, libraries, archives, and museums (GLAM institutions) to have the legal rights they need to collect, preserve, and provide access to cultural heritage.


Foundation statements


Other Movement curated newsletters & news
See also: Diff blog · Goings-on · Planet Wikimedia · Signpost (en) · Kurier (de) · Actualités du Wiktionnaire (fr) · Regards sur l’actualité de la Wikimedia (fr) · Wikimag (fr) · Education · GLAM · The Wikipedia Library · Milestones · Wikidata · Central and Eastern Europe · other newsletters

Subscribe or unsubscribe · Help translate

For information about the Bulletin and to read previous editions, see the project page on Meta-Wiki. Let askcac(_AT_)wikimedia.org know if you have any feedback or suggestions for improvement!


MediaWiki message delivery 16:08, 28 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Guide to temporary accounts

[edit]

Hello, Clovermoss. This message is being sent to remind you of significant upcoming changes regarding logged-out editing.

Starting 4 November, logged-out editors will no longer have their IP address publicly displayed. Instead, they will have a temporary account (TA) associated with their edits. Users with some extended rights like administrators and CheckUsers, as well as users with the temporary account IP viewer (TAIV) user right will still be able to reveal temporary users' IP addresses and all contributions made by temporary accounts from a specific IP address or range.

How do temporary accounts work?

Editing from a temporary account
  • When a logged-out user completes an edit or a logged action for the first time, a cookie will be set in this user's browser and a temporary account tied with this cookie will be automatically created for them. This account's name will follow the pattern: ~2025-12345-67 (a tilde, year of creation, a number split into units of 5).
  • All subsequent actions by the temporary account user will be attributed to this username. The cookie will expire 90 days after its creation. As long as it exists, all edits made from this device will be attributed to this temporary account. It will be the same account even if the IP address changes, unless the user clears their cookies or uses a different device or web browser.
  • A record of the IP address used at the time of each edit will be stored for 90 days after the edit. Users with the temporary account IP viewer (TAIV) user right will be able to see the underlying IP addresses.
  • As a measure against vandalism, there are two limitations on the creation of temporary accounts:
    • There has to be a minimum of 10 minutes between subsequent temporary account creations from the same IP (or /64 range in case of IPv6).
    • There can be a maximum of 6 temporary accounts created from an IP (or /64 range) within a period of 24 hours.

Temporary account IP viewer user right

How to enable IP Reveal

Impact for administrators

  • It will be possible to block many abusers by just blocking their temporary accounts. A blocked person won't be able to create new temporary accounts quickly if the admin selects the autoblock option.
  • It will still be possible to block an IP address or IP range.
  • Temporary accounts will not be retroactively applied to contributions made before the deployment. On Special:Contributions, you will be able to see existing IP user contributions, but not new contributions made by temporary accounts on that IP address. Instead, you should use Special:IPContributions for this (see a video about IPContributions in a gallery below).

Rules about IP information disclosure

  • Publicizing an IP address gained through TAIV access is generally not allowed (e.g. ~2025-12345-67 previously edited as 192.0.2.1 or ~2025-12345-67's IP address is 192.0.2.1).
  • Publicly linking a TA to another TA is allowed if "reasonably believed to be necessary". (e.g. ~2025-12345-67 and ~2025-12345-68 are likely the same person, so I am counting their reverts together toward 3RR, but not Hey ~2025-12345-68, you did some good editing as ~2025-12345-67)
  • See Wikipedia:Temporary account IP viewer § What can and can't be said for more detailed guidelines.

Useful tools for patrollers

  • It is possible to view if a user has opted-in to view temporary account IPs via the User Info card, available in Preferences → Appearance → Advanced options → Tick Enable the user info card
    • This feature also makes it possible for anyone to see the approximate count of temporary accounts active on the same IP address range.
  • Special:IPContributions allows viewing all edits and temporary accounts connected to a specific IP address or IP range.
  • Similarly, Special:GlobalContributions supports global search for a given temporary account's activity.
  • The auto-reveal feature (see video below) allows users with the right permissions to automatically reveal all IP addresses for a limited time window.

Videos

  • How to use Special:IPContributions
  • How automatic IP reveal works
  • How to use IP Info
  • How to use User Info

Further information and discussion

Most of this message was written by Mz7 (source). Thanks, 🎃 SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 02:48, 31 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]