Template talk:Halloween

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Psycho

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I am trying to change this back to "Psycho", and I did, but it still comes up Halloween.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jabrona (talk • contribs) 20:34, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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We have "days and times" and "related". Many of the things in "related" are days and times. I'm thinking of reorganizing that a bit. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 19:11, 29 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hideous colors

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I had first removed the very strong black, replacing it with a dark gray. Black, in a normal article (e.g. Saci Day), is absurdly polluting and adds nothing to the navbox. Then, based on WP:NAVCOLOR, I chose to remove all the colors, since they are unjustified, and I maintain that they add nothing of value. I based this on the Christmas navbox, which until recently had an explosive shade of red, but now thankfully uses the default color. Randy Kryn reverted me because the colors are "associated with the holiday", although I question where they are, and if they truly are, why that is, and whether that should have any influence over the navbox. @Ibadibam and Woodensuperman: pinging users who participated in the discussion regarding the Christmas navbox. RodRabelo7 (talk) 03:37, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yes, black and orange are associated with Halloween. School colors of a sort. A main reason the Christmas navbox was changed was to make sure the links stood out enough for readers to discern them. That's not an issue here. Randy Kryn (talk) 04:23, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I think the colours should be removed. Just because it looks festive is not a good reason to deviate from the standard colour scheme. It's distracting. --woodensuperman 05:53, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    It's Halloween and Wikipedia, not just-another-holiday and Drabapedia. These are long-term colors with no reason to change them other than "I'm not liking it". If, even for a tenth-of-a-second, the reader is reminded of the feeling of the holiday by the colors of the navbox, it has fulfilled a descriptive and emotional-navigation purpose. Now maybe if we had ghosts and AI generated witches floating in and above the navbox it would be a little distracting (but fun), yet pointing out the colors of the holiday, in Wikipedia style, does no harm and enough good to continue to exist. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:02, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Naboxes should not be arbitrarily decorative, and the amending the colours in this way disguises some of the links. --woodensuperman 12:40, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    There, have moved the links in question, now the links are explained without having to change the long-term colors (except for the category link at the bottom, and you don't like category links on navboxes anyway). Decorative elements are fine if they make an educational and encyclopedic point, which this does. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:59, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    @Randy Kryn what does one learn from black and orange colors? RodRabelo7 (talk) 14:41, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Are orange and black universal colors for Halloween / All Saints Eve, or are they particular to a narrower subset of the cultures that celebrate this holiday? If the latter, then the reason for removing them from the template is stated not only in MOS:NAVBOXCOLOR but also in WP:NPOV. Ibadibam (talk) 19:59, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed, this is a very US-centric colour scheme. --woodensuperman 10:57, 24 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Use any search engine and the term 'European Halloween'. Black and orange images are everywhere. Those colors are not "very U.S. centric", they seem to be universal (although other colors are mentioned, orange and black look to be the notable common colors of Halloween). Randy Kryn (talk) 03:33, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is why it's okay to remove yourself from the conversation for days. Just thought of this obvious point a few hours ago) There are probably hundreds of colored navboxes. If you work in navboxes, as woodensuperman and I do, you often see them. {{Notre_Dame_Fighting_Irish_football_navbox}} is literally the first one I thought to check, and there it is, colors. Navbox coloring is often used for colleges, sports teams, lots of things. If the goal is to remove colors from navboxes, please consider taking this deletion argument (deletion of a long-term signifying element) to one of the major college navboxes. Doing that would alert more editors (although it would probably need a widely known, all relevant navboxes alerted, RfC). Randy Kryn (talk) 03:00, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    A university chooses its own colors and publishes brand identity guidelines that make those colors easy to verify. An international holiday's symbols are generated by the various cultures that celebrate it and vary from place to place and time to time. My sense is that the current colors here only represent a narrow subset of those cultures, which means that the colors' use in this navbox misrepresents the holiday when taken as a sum of its many traditions. Ibadibam (talk) 03:35, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    What other colors are internationally identified with Halloween? Black and orange appear everywhere this day is celebrated (even in the candy and other foods associated with Halloween). Randy Kryn (talk) 14:39, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I've alerted the Halloween talk page, which should have been done when this was first brought up (my fault as much as anyone's). Please return the status quo colors so a full RfC can occur, thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:24, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • ...although, how about just orange?. This aligns with international colors of Halloween. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:28, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Pinging RodRabelo7, Woodensuperman, and Ibadibam to marvel at this new ( and obvious, duh) idea. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:39, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I can't say I'm a fan, it looks out of place at Samhain for example. Is bright orange really a traditional Samhain colour? Bringing WP:UNDUE attention to a specific navbox by use of a non-subtle colour scheme doesn't seem very encyclopedic to me. --woodensuperman 15:48, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    wp:undue has absolutely nothing to do with templates. The orange looks fine to me and I don’t see a guideline that you can’t have color (as many navboxes do), just that there needs to be some justification. —Rutebega (talk) 14:09, 8 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Silence?

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Please read the top of the essay. "Consensus is assumed when there's no evidence of disagreement." Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 22:12, 24 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Randy Kryn why can't you address the concerns on the talk page? RodRabelo7 (talk) 23:39, 24 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Woodensuperman @Ibadibam "If you mean me, it's been one day of 'silence', and will be a bit longer" Isn't this some sort of WP:STONEWALLING? RodRabelo7 (talk) 23:42, 24 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Patience please RodRabelo7. I do not like arguing Wikipedia topics every day, and often will take one, two, or a few days off. Wikipedia conversations are not truly time sensitive if the time is short enough. As for the essay 'Silence', I point out above how that was an inaccurate reading of the essay. Thanks. Will be back at some point soon, but yes, the colors of a holiday are informative and recognizable by most. Randy Kryn (talk) 23:44, 24 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
RodRabelo7, see my comment above, which opens with a significant reason about why it's alright to leave a discussion for a couple-several days, if not longer. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:00, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
RodRabelo7, please refrain from altering the page further until the discussion has concluded. (WP:QUO) Ibadibam (talk) 03:35, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The page was changed again and I'll revert back, this discussion has a long way to go and probably an RfC to achieve the overturning of what has become pretty standard on many navboxes (see above for colleges, sports teams, etc.). Randy Kryn (talk) 14:22, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
And now an edit warring-type revert. I've asked for assistance at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:47, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Three editors have opposed the colour scheme, with only you in favour, and there has been no further discussion for ten days. I'd say that's consensus not to keep it. You'll remember we had to do a similar thing with {{Christmas}}. --woodensuperman 14:50, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Make that four. We don't need a navbox that looks like an angry fruit salad. 2A0E:1D47:9085:D200:43C6:46BB:FF20:77E4 (talk) 14:54, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I've asked above (this is an add on section, not applicable to the consensus) if changing the color to simply Orange would do. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:28, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Liz. The black and orange combination has been objected to by several editors, but orange would still be appropriate given the comments (or lack of) above. It would be nice to go with orange without having to do an RfC. Why don't you think orange alone would stand as a standard Halloween holiday color? Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:06, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Although yes, orange and black as traditional Halloween colors are detailed here. I'm still liking the orange more, just because of the overuse of black on the long-term navbox. Maybe the black lettering for section heads will do for 'black', but not for the visible title which should be in linked-blue. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:13, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really mind just this light orange, but the bright orange AND the black were an eyesore. That is why I stopped commenting here, as I thought my silence would convey indifference to the discussion. I prefer the standard colors, but the light orange does not bother me at all. RodRabelo7 (talk) 16:10, 10 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Protected due to edit warring

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Protected for 1 week. If there's consensus that protection is no longer needed before 1 week is up, feel free ping me and/or request unprotection at WP:RFPP; any admin is free to unprotect.

@Randy Kryn:: between the discussion above and the response by other admins to your post on AN, I'd strongly recommend that you not continue to revert without clear consensus, as it appears your actions are verging on edit warring.

--slakr\ talk / 04:48, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Slakr, I had no intention of reverting again, and an apology for casting this aspersion would be appreciated. That would be a treat (but no trick). With this reaction I think an RfC could be started asking for the orange coloring to be standard, and am a bit surprised at the reactions against putting color back into this holiday navbox. Randy Kryn (talk) 09:46, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
And Slakr, since you came by to trick and treat (trick so far), what should the status quo color be before starting an RfC? That was the question I'd asked at ANI without a response and my main purpose for posting there. I'd suggest going back to the orange, which seems more acceptable to editors and the Great Pumpkin, although black and orange has been the long-term status quo. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:16, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Slakr, please add Great Pumpkin to the navbox, directly related to Halloween. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:45, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As an uninvolved admin, I usually freeze the page how it is upon arrival (unless there's likely some policy violation or it's likely to make things worse), then I delegate deciding on changes up to those that are involved, so what color is what is all in your guys' court now. I mainly patrol administrative-request noticeboards like WP:RFPP and WP:AIV, so when I show up it's less "trick-or-treating" and more like one of Santa's elves delivering presents to those who are genuinely trying to find consensus while delivering coal to those who are not. As such, the present/coal is that changes while the page is protected need to be clearly uncontroversial (e.g., a typo) or clearly have consensus (i.e., as demonstrated by the input of others). As a general editing guideline, that's foundationally good advice to follow anyway, incidentally. Cheers. --slakr\ talk / 08:37, 10 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well, you did mention me by name, which is why I asked for a good faith apology. Maybe strike some of your comment? Thanks. My favorite Halloween trick or treating house as a kid was Sam Giancana's, who would give away taffy apples. We'd change our looks a bit and go back around 45 minutes later for another one. He kept our neighborhood safe as well as giving out great Halloween treats. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:09, 10 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Usually when I come across a situation like this, it comes down to either blocking the primary individual(s) involved or protecting the page. Since multiple people objected to your preferred version(s), yet you continued to revert back to them, it was starting to look like you were the primary individual continuing an edit war. Surely that would have been an inaccurate interpretation of the situation—clearly you want to engage in dispute resolution—so I opted, instead, to strongly recommend that you not continue reverting without clear consensus. You're obviously free to disregard that recommendation if you feel it was unnecessary or unfounded. --slakr\ talk / 05:56, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]