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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 October 2025
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Description of suggested change:
A 2024 article in Haaretz – by a professor from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem – gave a very detailed overview of the story of Samson in Israeli culture and politics. I've only added a few words here, in the second paragraph of the article, but the same source could also be used to expand the background section.
Diff:
| − | The name is a reference to the [[Bible|biblical]] Israelite [[Biblical judges|judge]] [[Samson]] who pushed apart the pillars of a [[Philistines|Philistine]] temple, bringing down the roof and killing himself and thousands of Philistines who had captured him.
== Background ==
<div role="note" class="hatnote navigation-not-searchable">See also: [[:Samson]]</div>
When the [[Lehi (militant group)|Lehi militant group]] were discussing ways to assassinate General [[Evelyn Barker]], the British Army commander in [[Mandatory Palestine]], a [[Female suicide bomber |young woman volunteered]] to do the assassination as a [[suicide bombing]]. She said "[[Let my soul die with the Philistines]]<span class="noprint" style="font-size:85%; font-style: normal; "> [[[:he:תמות נפשי עם פלשתים|he]]]</span>" as a reference to the Samson story in the [[Hebrew Bible]]. Other members of the group rejected her offer.
== Nuclear ambiguity == | + | The name is a reference to the [[Bible|biblical]] Israelite [[Biblical judges|judge]] [[Samson]] who pushed apart the pillars of a [[Philistines|Philistine]] temple, bringing down the roof and killing himself and thousands of Philistines who had captured him.
== Background ==
<div role="note" class="hatnote navigation-not-searchable">See also: [[:Samson]] and [[:Cultural references to Samson]]</div>
The story of Samson, and particularly his "heroic suicide", plays a central role in [[Cultural references to Samson #Israeli culture|Israeli culture]] and politics.
When the [[Lehi (militant group)|Lehi militant group]] were discussing ways to assassinate General [[Evelyn Barker]], the British Army commander in [[Mandatory Palestine]], a [[Female suicide bomber |young woman volunteered]] to do the assassination as a [[suicide bombing]]. She said "[[Let my soul die with the Philistines]]<span class="noprint" style="font-size:85%; font-style: normal; "> [[[:he:תמות נפשי עם פלשתים|he]]]</span>" as a reference to the Samson story in the [[Hebrew Bible]]. Other members of the group rejected her offer.
== Nuclear ambiguity == |
- ^ a b Hersh 1991, pp. 137.
- ^ Beres, Louis René (November 16, 2018). "Israel and the "Samson Option" in an Interconnected World". Modern War Institute. Retrieved July 4, 2023.
- ^ a b c d e f "Raskin, Fania – Freedom Fighters of Israel Heritage Association". Archived from the original on 7 July 2022.
Fania then spoke up and volunteered herself. She was sure that for an operation such as this, she would find the strength to stand and walk. "My life is no life anyway" she added. This was a "Let my soul die with the Philistines" proposal, the Samson option. Of course, her suggestion was rejected. Fania Raskin passed away on July 20, 1947, in Jerusalem. She was thirty-one.
- ^ a b c d e f Lehi People לחי אנשים (PDF) (in Hebrew). Tel Aviv. 2002. p. 800. Archived from the original (PDF) on 21 December 2024. Retrieved 21 December 2024.
כאשר תוכננה התנקשות בגנרל בארקר, מפקד הצבא הבריטי בארץ־ישראל, הועלה רעיון, שבחורה תטייל עם עגלת תינוק, שתתפוצץ כאשר הגנרל יעבור לידה. נשאלה השאלה איך הבחורה תצליח להסתלק לפני ההתפוצצות. כאן התפרצה פניה והציעה את עצמה. בשביל פעולה כזאת, אמרה, היא תמצא כוחות לעמוד וללכת. ״ממילא חיי אינם חיים״, הוסיפה היא התכוונה לפעולת ״תמות נפשי עם פלשתים״. הצעתה נדחתה, כמובן. פניה רסקין הלכה לעולמה ב־-20.7.1947ג׳ מנחם אב תש״ז, בירושלים והיא בת 31
{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (link) - ^ a b c d e f רסקין פַניה – “מרגלית” – העמותה להנצחת מורשת לח״י (in Hebrew).
- ^ Beres, Louis René (November 16, 2018). "Israel and the "Samson Option" in an Interconnected World". Modern War Institute. Retrieved July 4, 2023.
- ^ Rinon, Yoav (2024-03-16). "The destructive wish for revenge followed by suicide is rooted in the Israeli ethos". Haaretz.
...regarding Samson's final moments, namely the last sentence he utters: "Let me die with the Philistines". That sentence sums up, literally, Samson's whole life, and has something to say not only about Samson ... but also about the ideology he represents, for those who have made him their latest idol and who frequently sing his praises. The entire myth of the biblical Samson leads to his heroic suicide as an exemplar for the greatest and worthiest sacrifice of all, ostensibly one made in the name of God.
Author: "Prof. Yoav Rinon is head of the department of comparative literature of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem."
I included a quote in the citation, because it is behind a pay wall and the relevance is not clear from the title. 2405:6E00:630:ED76:AF38:9C96:DD36:449A (talk) 02:13, 18 October 2025 (UTC)
Not done: While I can't access the full article, the portion you quoted does not support the claim that the story of Samson plays a central role in Israeli culture and politics. Furthermore, to say that it plays a central role is a somewhat vague generality; we should be more specific about exactly what role it plays. And since the source is an opinion article, its views should be attributed to its author and not stated as a fact in Wikipedia's voice. Day Creature (talk) 06:32, 18 October 2025 (UTC)
Edit request 18 October 2025
[edit] | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Requested on 18 October 2025, then revised to resolve the reason for rejection. 2405:6E00:630:DED2:795B:EC0A:CA11:F601 (talk) 08:10, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
Description of suggested change:
Please link the Bible verse and credit the illustrator. The artist, and this specific illustration, are often named in Israeli sources about the story of Samson, and an antique Bible in an Israeli war history museum that includes a copy of this illustration. I put the details in a footnote.
Diff:
| − | [[File:064.The Death of Samson.jpg|thumb|According to | + | [[File:064.The Death of Samson.jpg|thumb|According to [[Judges 16]]:30, [[Samson]] died when he grasped two pillars of the Temple of [[Dagon]], and "bowed himself with all his might" ([[KJV]]), Illustration by [[Gustave Doré]]. ]] |
- ^ This illustration and over 100 others from Gustave Doré's illustrations for La Grande Bible de Tours were included in an illustrated Hebrew Bible (Hebrew: התנ"ך בתמונות, lit. 'The Bible in Pictures') published in 1946.[1][2][3] The Israeli Defense Ministry's Museum of the Underground Prisoners has historic copy of this Bible from 1947.[4][5][6]
Diff:: I made this show just the code by adding <nowiki></nowiki>
| − |
* {{annotated link|Project Daniel}}
== References ==
| + |
* {{annotated link|Project Daniel}}
== Notes ==
{{reflist|group=lower-alpha}}
== References ==
|
2405:6E00:630:DED2:795B:EC0A:CA11:F601 (talk) 08:10, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
References
- ^ התנ"ך בתמונות [The Bible in Pictures] (in Hebrew). Illustrated by Gustave Doré. Sinai Book Publishing (הוצאת ספרים סיני). 1946. p. 45 – via Google Books.
{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: others (link) (citation only, full book unavailable online) Publisher: סיני ספרי קודש ותשמישי קדושה - ספרי יהדות, מזוזות, תפילין וטליתות [Sinai Holy Books and Sacred Objects - Jewish Books, Mezuzahs, Tefillin, and Tallitot]. www.sinai-books.com. - ^ כל הדרך לגרדום: ימיו האחרונים של מאיר פיינשטיין [All the way to the gallows: The last days of Meir Feinstein]. Makor Rishon (in Hebrew). עותק של "התנ"ך בתמונות" שאייר גוסטב דורה... רואים גם שהספר נפתח הרבה פעמים בעמוד 45: זה העמוד שבו נמצא האיור של שמשון, והפסוק 'תמות נפשי עם פלשתים'. [a copy of the "Bible in Pictures" illustrated by Gustave Doré... You can also see that the book opens many times to page 45: this is the page where the illustration of Samson is found, and the verse 'My soul shall die with the Philistines'.]
- ^ Reporter: Eli Mendlbaum, Featuring: Eliezer Feinstein, shown holding the bible, opened to page 45 (2012). צפו: התנ"ך שהקדישו עולי הגרדום [Watch: The Bible consecrated by the Olei Hagardom]. mako.co.il (video). Mount of Olives (beside the graves of Menachem Begin and other historical figures): Channel 12 (Israel). Event occurs at 2:02. — The video is included in this written report: Silberman, Yossi; Mendlbaum, Eli. התנ"ך שהקדישו עולי הגרדום [The Bible consecrated by the Olei Hagardom]. mako.co.il. בעמוד 45 בספר מופיעות התמונות המתארות את מותו של שמשון הגיבור, שאמר "תמות נפשי עם פלשתים". [On page 45 of the book appear the pictures depicting the death of the hero Samson, who said, "My soul shall die with the Philistines".]
- ^ Sheleg, Yair (7 April 2007). "The Good Jailer". Haaretz.
The ceremony will be held at the Museum of the Underground Prisoners. The Bible, which Feinstein kept in his cell, contains about 115 woodcut illustrations by Gustave Dore... Subsequently, the book will be presented for safekeeping to the museum...
Hebrew edition: הסוהר הטוב [The good jailer]. Haaretz. 4 April 2007. - ^ "The writing on the wall". The Jerusalem Post. 19 April 2007.
Last night a ceremony took place at the Museum of the Underground Prisoners with the participation of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert ... Bible, with engravings of French illustrator Gustave Dore... The Defense Ministry's Museum of Underground Prisoners...
— Speech: Ehud Olmert (19 April 2007). "PM's Speech at the Ceremony". www.gov.il. Israel: Prime Minister's Office: The 31st Government. - ^ "News Brief". Jewish Telegraphic Agency. 20 April 2007.
The Bible, which contains some 115 woodcut illustrations by Gustave Dore, will be kept at the museum.
- Not done: The quotes in the last two references in the footnote, at least, do not explicitly support that "The militant's death is often compared to Samson's". Throast {{ping}} me! (talk | contribs) 14:27, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
- I have removed that part now. A better explanation of that would be too long for a footnote about the artwork, so I have simplified the footnote to focus on the artwork. 2405:6E00:630:DED2:795B:EC0A:CA11:F601 (talk) 07:53, 4 November 2025 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 October 2025
[edit] | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Description of suggested change:
To the Background section please add:
- this source, with the short summary shown below.[1]
- the other background page about Samson:
Diff:
| − | The name is a reference to the [[Bible|biblical]] Israelite [[Biblical judges|judge]] [[Samson]] who pushed apart the pillars of a [[Philistines|Philistine]] temple, bringing down the roof and killing himself and thousands of Philistines who had captured him.
== Background ==
<div role="note" class="hatnote navigation-not-searchable">See also: [[:Samson]]</div>
When the [[Lehi (militant group)|Lehi militant group]] were discussing ways to assassinate General [[Evelyn Barker]], the British Army commander in [[Mandatory Palestine]], a [[Female suicide bomber |young woman volunteered]] to do the assassination as a [[suicide bombing]]. She said "[[Let my soul die with the Philistines]]<span class="noprint" style="font-size:85%; font-style: normal; "> [[[:he:תמות נפשי עם פלשתים|he]]]</span>" as a reference to the Samson story in the [[Hebrew Bible]]. Other members of the group rejected her offer.
== Nuclear ambiguity == | + | The name is a reference to the [[Bible|biblical]] Israelite [[Biblical judges|judge]] [[Samson]] who pushed apart the pillars of a [[Philistines|Philistine]] temple, bringing down the roof and killing himself and thousands of Philistines who had captured him.
== Background ==
<div role="note" class="hatnote navigation-not-searchable">See also: [[:Samson]] and [[:Cultural references to Samson]]</div>
Professor [[Yoav Rinon]]<span class="noprint" style="font-size:85%; font-style: normal; "> [[[:he:יואב רינון|he]]]</span> – head of the department of comparative literature of the [[Hebrew University of Jerusalem]] – described the story of Samson, and the attitudes it reflects, as "rooted in the Israeli ethos", alongside the [[Siege of Masada|Masada]] [[Masada myth|myth]]. Rinon criticized the "destructive wish for revenge followed by suicide" in Samson's story and the ideology Samson represents, quoting Samson's words "Let me die with the Philistines" that precede his "heroic suicide" in [[Judges 16|the biblical story]].
When the [[Lehi (militant group)|Lehi militant group]] were discussing ways to assassinate General [[Evelyn Barker]], the British Army commander in [[Mandatory Palestine]], a [[Female suicide bomber |young woman volunteered]] to do the assassination as a [[suicide bombing]]. She said "[[Let my soul die with the Philistines]]<span class="noprint" style="font-size:85%; font-style: normal; "> [[[:he:תמות נפשי עם פלשתים|he]]]</span>" as a reference to the Samson story in the [[Hebrew Bible]]. Other members of the group rejected her offer.
== Nuclear ambiguity == |
2405:6E00:630:2539:B03B:7E56:4288:D846 (talk) 14:07, 22 October 2025 (UTC)
- Same range, multiple requests Whyiseverythingalreadyused (talk) 16:07, 22 October 2025 (UTC)
- Yes, this was a revised version of the request from 18 October 2025 that got rejected about 4 hours later. Previously I put the main messages of the article in my own words, the rejection said that was "somewhat vague" and "the portion you quoted does not support the claim", so here I used short quotes of the author's exact words. The rejection above also said "views should be attributed to its author" so I fixed that and linked the author's Wikipedia page instead of the newspaper. 2405:6E00:630:1BAB:F3F9:C96E:D7CC:BB93 (talk) 02:19, 2 November 2025 (UTC)
References
- ^ a b c Rinon, Yoav [in Hebrew] (16 March 2024). "The destructive wish for revenge followed by suicide is rooted in the Israeli ethos". Haaretz. Archived from the original on 2024-03-16 – via archive.today (for the archive).
Prof. Yoav Rinon is head of the department of comparative literature of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
- ^ a b Hersh 1991, pp. 137.
- ^ Beres, Louis René (November 16, 2018). "Israel and the "Samson Option" in an Interconnected World". Modern War Institute. Retrieved July 4, 2023.
- ^ a b c d e f "Raskin, Fania – Freedom Fighters of Israel Heritage Association". Archived from the original on 7 July 2022.
Fania then spoke up and volunteered herself. She was sure that for an operation such as this, she would find the strength to stand and walk. "My life is no life anyway" she added. This was a "Let my soul die with the Philistines" proposal, the Samson option. Of course, her suggestion was rejected. Fania Raskin passed away on July 20, 1947, in Jerusalem. She was thirty-one.
- ^ a b c d e f Lehi People לחי אנשים (PDF) (in Hebrew). Tel Aviv. 2002. p. 800. Archived from the original (PDF) on 21 December 2024. Retrieved 21 December 2024.
כאשר תוכננה התנקשות בגנרל בארקר, מפקד הצבא הבריטי בארץ־ישראל, הועלה רעיון, שבחורה תטייל עם עגלת תינוק, שתתפוצץ כאשר הגנרל יעבור לידה. נשאלה השאלה איך הבחורה תצליח להסתלק לפני ההתפוצצות. כאן התפרצה פניה והציעה את עצמה. בשביל פעולה כזאת, אמרה, היא תמצא כוחות לעמוד וללכת. ״ממילא חיי אינם חיים״, הוסיפה היא התכוונה לפעולת ״תמות נפשי עם פלשתים״. הצעתה נדחתה, כמובן. פניה רסקין הלכה לעולמה ב־-20.7.1947ג׳ מנחם אב תש״ז, בירושלים והיא בת 31
{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (link) - ^ a b c d e f רסקין פַניה – “מרגלית” – העמותה להנצחת מורשת לח״י (in Hebrew).
- ^ Beres, Louis René (November 16, 2018). "Israel and the "Samson Option" in an Interconnected World". Modern War Institute. Retrieved July 4, 2023.
- ^ Rinon, Yoav (16 March 2024), Quote,
...the justification for the collective suicide also rests on God. The contemporaneous historian Flavius Josephus relates the story of the end of Masada in his book "The Jewish War." He begins by saying that the Sicarii, the extreme faction that entrenched itself on Masada... the speech in praise of suicide delivered by the Sicarii leader, Eleazar Ben Yair, after he had reached the conclusion that everyone, without exception, must die on Masada; no one was to escape the fate that he, Ben Yair, had determined for them.
- ^ Rinon, Yoav (16 March 2024), Quote,
Samson's essence is his "stomach" and only his "stomach," and he is ruled by a feeling of affront that in its turn generates murderous, wildly disproportionate vengefulness... regarding Samson's final moments, namely the last sentence he utters: "Let me die with the Philistines". That sentence sums up, literally, Samson's whole life, and has something to say not only about Samson ... but also about the ideology he represents, for those who have made him their latest idol and who frequently sing his praises. The entire myth of the biblical Samson leads to his heroic suicide as an exemplar for the greatest and worthiest sacrifice of all, ostensibly one made in the name of God.
- Not done: Cultural references to Samson do not seem relevant to the background of the deterrence strategy. In my view, the professor's opinion belongs in the "Authors' opinions" section rather than the "Background" section, if at all. Throast {{ping}} me! (talk | contribs) 14:36, 24 October 2025 (UTC)