Talk:Chinook Jargon

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The content of Chinook Jargon use by English-language speakers was merged into Chinook Jargon on November 18, 2011. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. For the discussion at that location, see its talk page.

Number of living native speakers

@SMcCandlish Recently, I changed the number of "native speakers" listed in the language infobox from "More than 640 (at least 3 native adult speakers alive in 2019 based on estimates from the Chinook Jargon Listserv archives)" to "1". Shortly afterwards, you removed the listing of just one native speaker saying "Claiming there is exactly one speaker is also unsourced speaker information, and almost certainly wrong."

I was surprised by this because I thought the source that I had provided a source, specifically the Atlas of Pidgin and Creole Language Structures Online (APICS), through the template's ref parameter. Additionally, I think there is an important distinction to be made between native speakers and speakers who have learned the Chinook Jargon as a second language.

Sources, including the APICS one I mentioned earlier do point towards there being a second language community for Chinook Jargon. Specifically, the APICS source suggests "maybe 1000 people with L2 knowledge (via oral or written means)" and the self-report 2009-2013 American Community Survey currently cited in the article estimated 20-70 people spoke Chinook Jargon at home in the United States. As to there being precisely 1 native speaker living, a situation where the exact number of native living speakers is known isn't uncommon for endangered Native American languages, compare the Upper Chinook language where the number of remaining native speakers was precisely tracked and known over time as they died.

If there are some additional details about my initial edit which explain why it was partially undone, I would be interested in learning about those. Thanks and take care. —The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 19:53, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@The Editor's Apprentice: My bad; I've restored your "1". I didn't notice that the |ref= parameter has output that is specifically attached to the output of the |speakers= parameter (which is frankly pretty weird infobox coding), or that |speakers= outputs a specifically "native" speakers claim (which is confusing since the parameter doesn't match its rendered name, and probably not helpful anyway, since I doubt our readers care much about number of people who knew a language since childhood versus number of people who actually know a language, and at any rate our readers probably care much more about the latter). Since Chinook Jargon is a trade pidgin or creole, it seems dubious that it is the first language of anyone at all, even if there remains a speaker who has known it since they were little as a second language learned alongside their first. The entire notion of "native speaker" in a case like this is kind of dubious, and the infobox presently suggesting that there is only 1 speaker is misleading, and would basically mean that this is a dead language (a language you can't speak or write intelligibly with anyone else in the world is already dead for all intents and purposes). Anyway, at very least the second-language learning material you mention from APICS and ACS is probably worth adding to the article. But the infobox also supports |speakers2= to add information on total speakers, or another option is using |speakers_label= to remove "native" from the output of |speakers= and use a larger number there. I think we should do something to make it clearer to a reader of the infobox that there is not just one speaker left.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  22:10, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Vondonalk

the language Vondonalk is spoken in Haida Gwaii and is a Vulnerable language as a new Nuu-chah-nulth script as the main character in this book. It is a Sioux-Chipewyan language that 3,765,174 people speak in Canada, Mexico, and Greece. In that case, let’s move on to the Vondonalk 1400 BCE era. There was a script called “Vond” and 5,000,000 people spoke it. But, in Europe, it turned into a Latin-Salish-Lushootseed language that 4,300,000 people speak. But now, in 2025 and aging, it is ancient and mediaeval. And it spread towards Canada, United States, Mexico, Brazil, and all of Central America. within time, it has spread to Greece, Japan, and Tasmania. and it turns out to be in a new unknown country called Abbotsford Island. And it speaks English, French, Punjabi, Halq’emeylem, Nuu-chah-nulth, Kwak’wala, Lakota, Inupiaq. As the new country has been known, it is 4,000 years old. Older than Canada. M0mmy99 (talk) 01:08, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Common Evania War

Evania has been here for 560,000,000 years and now it’s in war! It’s in war with Israel for 2 years. but Israel almost gave up. but 4000 and counting years ago, it was part of the Ottoman empire. but it collapsed. I feel sorry for the Ottoman empire… but I couldn’t give up. I was in the war too. So, I had to do this and I WON!!! and Evania is turning into a country in 2036. M0mmy99 (talk) 01:14, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, newcomer. Will you wise up and stop posting Markov gibberish, lose interest and go away, or get banned? —Tamfang (talk) 03:07, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Removing from Metis category?

I noticed that this article is attached to the metis template. There's no historical basis for Chinook Jargon's identification as a language of the metis people. Their languages, Michif and Bungi are more than trade languages. I know that it's mostly semantics, but I think we should remove this article's attachment to the metis. GreenHillsOfAfrica (talk) 00:47, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: ANTH474 Language Emergence - From Contact to Constructed Languages

This article is currently the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 2 September 2025 and 10 December 2025. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Expoanth476, Suknaqin (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Expoanth476 (talk) 04:30, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]