Talk:Bassel al-Araj

This article was nominated for deletion on 10 March 2019. The result of the discussion was keep.

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translation from Arabic wikipedia

I began this page as a translation from the Arabic version of the al-Araj article, however I found that a number of claims in the Arabic article are unsupported with sources. I've attempted to provide references in English for the various claims made in this English article, and provided sources in Arabic where English sources aren't readily available. [1]

POV problems

Reads like a martyrology. Could use some balanced coverage of basic facts.E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:23, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

These issues have not been resolved (see also: more recent concern in section below on this talk page). Passages like "al-Araj and his companions were subject to torture and mistreatment"... which is disputed, disputes of which are not in the article, or "He was engaged by the Israeli forces in a two-hour gunfight" clearly seeking to define responsibility rather than simply recount events (i.e. "A two-hour gunfight ensued", inadvisable passive voice but avoids any POV concern), or "Israeli forces... murdered al-Araj after his ammunition was depleted" (sourced to a post from Samidoun Palestinian Prisoner Solidarity Network, questions re reliability) just before adding "although Israeli reports state that al-Araj opened fire" (Sourced to JPost, reliable source re Israeli claims). As noted, this also brings up issues of reliability of sources. Lots from Palestinian NGOs and generally anti-Israel press outlets (Maan News, Samidoun, al Jazeera, Electronic Intifada) without many balanced or reliable sources (aside from AJ).

I'm not going to try to untangle all of this now, but I will add the relevant POV and sourcing tags to the page as both a warning and an invitation for help from other editors. Jbbdude (talk) 20:42, 8 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I just read a bit more of this article's history. It previously had a NPOV tag! It got removed by a user, who seems super active in discussions about Israel in particular (almost exclusively), because there was "no active discussion", not because NPOV issues had actually been resolved. This article was also nominated for AfD, potentially rightly so given notability, but the conversation clearly came to the opposite conclusion. It has seen all kinds of back and forth and minor edit wars, attempts to rhetorically blame one side or another (e.g. "fired upon/was fired upon", "Israeli occupation forces") rather than dispassionately and accurately provide information, etc. Lots of IP users, lots of SPAs. This article and its history are one big mess which needs to be sorted with some NPOV clarity. Probably a whole rewrite, with a wholesale replacement of sources. It will take some time. Removing the POV tag again without first fixing these issues is not acceptable and should not be attempted by any editor. It's vandalism. Jbbdude (talk) 20:58, 8 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

“Murder”

The IDF didn’t murder him TonyRiley2021 (talk) 23:00, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"IOF" and "Zionist" and other terminology

Using pro specific narrative like IOF not only makes it biased, but also creates a fake narrative, in addition. it was 'omitted' that he died in a gunfight with the IDF SWAT unit while he is armed. and not "sieged" nor 'executed' https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4931157,00.html 147.235.198.198 (talk) 09:45, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There isn’t absolutely anything semantically or cognitively prejudiced to have the collective facts constructed along reality, where Israel colonial existence in west bank violates international laws and hence a warcrime that constitutes the actions of an occupying power. It’s far from any grey zone to get pretzeled at all and doesn’t manufacture a “pro” based narrative. 103.170.55.146 (talk) 00:50, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is "Israeli only bus"?

It appears that whoever mentioned "Israeli-only" bus was intentionally distorting the reality trying to invoke false analogies with racial segregation in the American South. There is no such thing as "Israeli-only" buses. Judging by the cited article, a group of the Palestinian Arabs was allowed to board the bus, but they refused to exit the bus at a border checkpoint and insisted on riding the bus into Israel while lacking proper authorization. Anyone is allowed to board the bus regardless of their race, but only people that have proper documents can enter Israel proper, again, regardless of their race. One can have different opinions about the legality of the checkpoints, but the alleged similarity with racially segregated public transportation in the American South is completely false and should be removed.Yatur (talk) 00:02, 8 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I changed it to a neutral phrase, crossing the West Bank barrier without Israeli authorization and placed "Freedom Riders" in quotes instead of wikivoice. Closetside (talk) 20:54, 8 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request 10 May 2025

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Description of suggested change:

There was no misspelling in the pamphlet mentioned, it is merely that there is no single consistent romanization of the name Basel (could be: Basil, Bassel, none of these are wrong, this is just a romanization issue!)

Diff:

−

ORIGINAL_TEXT

+

CHANGED_TEXT

156.111.111.151 (talk) 04:59, 10 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there! I understand your point, but the source says: "The flyers contained factual errors, including a misspelling". However, we don't have to copy every single thing that the source says, and "including a misspelling of his name" is so not-notable that I can remove it anyway. Lova Falk (talk) 07:34, 10 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Lova Falk (talk) 07:35, 10 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The source doesn't explain what the alleged factual errors are in what is a very low-effort article. It is difficult to see how this is even a source for the claim, because it just.... states that there were factual errors, without naming a single one, except one which is not a factual error (the spelling of his name in English, when his name is not an English-language name.) 185.206.200.152 (talk) 14:30, 10 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I found a different source that did not mention a flyer with errors and a misspelling. Copy-edited text and exchanged source. Lova Falk (talk) 05:24, 11 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]