Talk:Anglican Communion

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Origins of Scottish Episcopal Church

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This article should make it clearer that the Scottish Episcopal Church is not an offshoot of the Church of England. Also after the USA's separatist rebellion was successful, the English church cut off the Episcopal Church there and it was through the efforts of Scottish Episcopalians that it got back on its feet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.51.162.96 (talk) 20:36, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Map ??

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I find the map puzzling. What are "autonomous churches" in distinction to the other provinces?? I do not find that in the article. Is it supposed to mean something like "national provinces" differentiated from "supernational" ones? Kipala (talk) 06:28, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

revert

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why was my edit reverted? 89.139.53.155 (talk) 04:59, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Original research

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An editor recently made some major revisions that are based on original research, particularly regarding membership and structure. For example, although the citations say the Anglican Church of Southern Africa has 3 - 4 million members.The editor changed it to 2.5 million. It would be helpful if other editors could go through the article and check the cited sources and make sure it's lining up with what has been changed. They've also changed the definition of membership for some of the churches seemingly based on original research. For example, the Church of England is well-known to have about 25 million baptised members. The CofE does not distinguish between inactive and active members (similar to how the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox also report their baptised membership without distinguishing). However, an editor came up with around 8 million despite the cited sources saying 25-26 million. Thank you, other editors, for helping to watch and maintain the article.SeminarianJohn (talk) 22:06, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Dear @SeminarianJohn, There is no original research. All the figures added are sourced. The Church of England claims to have 26 million. This figure has been retained. However, there is another, independent source (http://web.archive.org/web/20200716233930/https://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/media/39293/1_bsa36_religion.pdf), published in 2012, which claims that only 12% of the UK population (7,975,200 in that year) identify as members of the Church of England. Therefore, both the minimum and maximum figures have been retained. The figures for the Church of Southern Africa are based on the World Council of Churches (https://www.oikoumene.org/member-churches/anglican-church-of-southern-africa) which now actually reports 2,300,000. The number "3-4 million" is in the other source. And both are there now.
None of this is "original research." The numbers are all based on some source, which has been added to the article.
In all cases, the minimum and maximum numbers have been left out, since there are different sources with different figures for the number of Anglicans in each place. This is perfectly normal for an encyclopedia, since data from independent sources is also useful in addition to the primary sources. Daniel Silva Mendanha (talk) 18:27, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think you addressed some of my concerns and I am in agreement with the level of cooperation present at this time. My concern was with selectively choosing lower numbers for some provinces while selecting higher numbers for others, when multiple RS are readily available. That has since been addressed by my edits, your edits, and others' edits. SeminarianJohn (talk) 19:35, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Original research is calling the Anglican Communion the fourth-largest communion when the consensus of RS across the board, can't find a single RS that says otherwise, says it is the third-largest. I appreciate other editors watching this.SeminarianJohn (talk) 21:37, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@SeminarianJohn I raised the discussion about the position of the WCRC and the AC as the largest Protestant communions in the world, on Talk:List of the largest Protestant denominations on June 18, 2025, and tagged you. However, since I didn't get a response there, I've added information, sources, and a note about the discussion of AC's position as the third or fourth largest Christian communion in the world, in both articles, as some sources say one thing and others say another. It's best to leave both pieces of information, along with the explanatory note. Daniel Silva Mendanha (talk) 21:40, 18 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I can agree with the way you have worded it. It shares the sources and gives fair information allowing the reader to know that the AC and WCRC are similar in size and that they are either the third or fourth largest communions. I did not see the tag so I'm sorry I did not respond. However, I agree with your phrasing and changes. SeminarianJohn (talk) 23:44, 18 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you SeminarianJohn! I'm glad we reached a consensus. The position of the WCRC (with 100-140 million) and the AC (85-110 million) is debatable because the range between the minimum and maximum membership overlaps.
Therefore, one of them is the third largest and the other may be the fourth largest Christian fellowship. Another thing I would like to add, in the future, is that the World Assemblies of God Fellowship (WAGF) also falls within this overlaps, along with the AC (but not with the WCRC).
The WAGF claims 86 million adherents. This puts the WAGF at 1 million more members than the AC claims (85 million). [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]
Therefore, the AC could be:
a) the third largest communion (if it has 110 million and we don't count WCRC associates and affiliates);
b) the fourth (if it has 110 million and we count all 140 members, including WCRC associates and affiliates); or
c) the fifth-largest Christian communion, if it has 85 million members, behind the WAGF, which claims 86 million. Daniel Silva Mendanha (talk) 19:04, 19 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good. I would add that the WAGF, like the Anglican Communion and WCRC, also distinguishes between different times of membership. They claim as few as 67 million to as many as the 86 million. SeminarianJohn (talk) 03:08, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You are much more adept at managing the charts and creating new sections to them than I am. I was thinking we should also add the Pew Research study for the US Episcopal Church which found there are about 2,700,000 self-identified mainline Episcopalians in the USA. And, for the Church in Wales, a YouGov study found that 56% of Christians in England Wales respectively identified as Church England or Church in Wales. SeminarianJohn (talk) 03:21, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
In 2018, there were 3.4 million Welsh residents, among whom 41% were Christians; the study said 56% of those who were Christian identified as Church in Wales or about 784,000 persons self-identify with the church. In England it is fairly close to the number already cited in a different study.SeminarianJohn (talk) 03:23, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I also thought it might be interesting and valuable if you could also add a chart in the same section on Organisation and provinces with the geographic distribution of Anglicans (not including the United churches of South Asia); Church Times reported on the latest study they published this year about the distribution of Anglicans. https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2025/6-june/features/features/how-will-the-global-anglican-communion-be-represented-in-deciding-the-next-archbishop-of-canterbury SeminarianJohn (talk) 03:37, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Anglican split

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Reading the communique from GAFCON, they stated they are not leaving the Anglican Communion but declaring that they are the Communion. This is another partial schism. Because no province has declared they are leaving the Anglican Communion, editors should refrain from removing provinces and their membership into. Instead, we should explain the contents communique and wait for more decisions. 75.104.94.110 (talk) 21:59, 16 October 2025 (UTC) This was my contribution; I was not able to sign in it seems for some reason. Signing now. SeminarianJohn (talk) 03:56, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I also think we should be wary of taking GAFCON's claims too seriously. If the state of Idaho issued a statement saying "We're not leaving the USA, we are the USA and everyone else are rebels" we'd regard it as self-evidently silly. The real demonstration of GAFCON's relative strength will be how many people and churches stick with them in the longer term. GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:09, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It's not our job to say who runs the "real" Anglican Communion, but there should be information about the membership changes in both organizations as they develop. 2603:6011:66F0:72B0:619E:AD54:138D:DE49 (talk) 13:09, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's our job to reflect what reliable sources say about it, and at the moment, it's much too early to say. Even specialist media are only just reacting, and mainstream ones haven't touched it yet. But while both parts are probably going to go on saying they're the 'real' Anglican Communion, external sources are likely to make their own informed judgments, and reflecting those will help to guide what we, in turn, say about it. GenevieveDEon (talk) 14:02, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I understand your approach to be cautious and we should probably wait for more secondary sources (higher quality ones) who use the term split/schism. These claims of "we are the originals" happens in all splits/schisms though. The CoE claiming to be catholic, the protestants claiming to be the obvious continuation of the early christian church(es), the various Mormon or Muslim splits... Rolluik (talk) 11:37, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Here's an analysis published today by The Living Church magazine: GAFCON Creates Global Anglican Communion. The new "Global Anglican Communion" does assert it is "the Anglican Communion" much as the Anglican Reformers asserted they were "the" Church of England despite the break with Rome. Travellers & Tinkers (talk) 16:33, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The reformers did not, however, assert that they were the Church of Rome. GenevieveDEon (talk) 16:37, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
An early consensus among all of us appears to at least definitely be that we need more secondary and reliable sources. The Most Rev. Laurent Mbanda is a reliable source to speak for his view and the view at least of his province and, maybe, some of GAFCON. So, I think we should note the communique and include this in the list of de-fact schsisms. However, as no other member church has declared intent to leave the Anglican Communion, and even Mbanda insists he is not leaving the Anglican Communion, we should monitor and wait for what develops. It is certainly a confusing situation at the moment with both a declaration for a future entity called the Global Anglican Communion that may or may not be formally organized and in the same communique an assertion in bold that they are not leaving the Anglican Communion.SeminarianJohn (talk) 22:00, 17 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]